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With all of the freaking out over gas prices, there has to be some braniac developing a drop-in biodiesel. Other than the ECU and weight, what other factors would be involved?
Drop-in diesel--is it possible?
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8,988 Posts
Well, TLC is dropping new 2.8 liter Internationals into some of their ICON Cruisers.
Concerns:
overall block size, weight, and mounting points
adapting the engine to the transmission
figuring out all the controls, systems, and electronics
While it would be pretty cool, the justification would be nearly impossible as even a diesel install in an 90s FJ80 will run you $12-15K minimum unless you do it yourself or use all junkyard parts.
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The price is pretty much what I was afraid of. What about steam power? I'm almost positive I can squeeze a firebox and boiler under the hood.
chugga chugga chugga chugga
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269 Posts
The toyota Prado as a diesel motoring, i'm not sure but it's a 3,4L turbo. And you know that we (the FJ and the Prado) are twin. That the reason why ARB was so fast to get on the market a front bumper...is the same one.
I'm sure it possible...what you think about that?
I'm sure it possible...what you think about that?
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192 Posts
A diesel FJ needs to happen
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Ok I would love to see a steampunk FJ Cruiser.
If any of you don't know what steampunk is do a google search.
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One company I read about that puts Toyota diesels into older FJs can only bring the diesels into the country by purchasing the entire front clip. I can't recall if they were new or salvage yard bits that had to be rebuilt but I do remember them stating the cost of these parts at $7-8K alone. Add more parts and lots of labor and, well, there you go.
Now, if it were a new FJ with a factory installed diesel and it cost say $7,000 more it would be more easily justified because its resale would always be much more than a gasser (just like heavy duty pickup trucks). If you retrofit a diesel into an FJ, like with all the accessories we install, it will not increase the value of the FJ by an equal amount. Maybe a little but no where close to what you put into it.
Now, if it were a new FJ with a factory installed diesel and it cost say $7,000 more it would be more easily justified because its resale would always be much more than a gasser (just like heavy duty pickup trucks). If you retrofit a diesel into an FJ, like with all the accessories we install, it will not increase the value of the FJ by an equal amount. Maybe a little but no where close to what you put into it.
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That engine would never pass U.S. smog requirments. There was a company that looked into it (Can't remeber the name), but suposofly the FJ engine bay is smaller than the Prado, and makes running the intercooler, and all the aspociated plumbing more difficult. Of course custom plumbing could always be done. But i guess they figured out it wasn't worth the time/effort to get that paticular engine to work in the Fj. I do remember seeing a post on here about someone in brazil or somthing putting in the 4.0 twin turbo V8 in an FJ, but for the money he spent, you could have bought another Fj.
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1,011 Posts
Lets say that I wanted to swap the engine for a diesel down the road, ignoring government standards and forgetting aesthetics, is it possible to do relatively cheaply and easily?
Basically bastardizing it like we do older rigs to make crawlers.
Basically bastardizing it like we do older rigs to make crawlers.
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150 Posts
It's always been strange to me that every manufacturer makes many diesel models that are never brought to the U.S. that is the predominant fuel around the world yet we have realitively few diesel options here unless you want a huge truck.
on that note anyone see the experimental car in europe that was a diesel making several hundred horses and getting like 80 MPG. It looked like a race car. thats what we need in an fj.
on that note anyone see the experimental car in europe that was a diesel making several hundred horses and getting like 80 MPG. It looked like a race car. thats what we need in an fj.
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I know diesels are more efficient, but given a 19 gal tank in a diesel fj and a gas fj, would that efficiency make up the 60-70 cent difference in diesel and unleaded when you fill up?
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It can if it runs off the oil that floats on top of Peter Pan peanut butter
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I'll buy that, but I don't think it will give it back at the pump
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A diesel is much easier to go bio-fuel and make a diff in many ways including the wallet. a buddy of mine with a small saw mill is purchasing a biodiesel processer for about 8000$ to fuel his trucks and equipment and says it will pay for itself in the first year. He is getting old oil from a potato chip plant.
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53 Posts
I agree with the bio diesel. Great for the enviro. But just diesel will not do it a gal is about 5.10 to 5.20 here
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87 Posts
Let's all write letters to Toyota and ask them to give us a few 2008 3L Prado diesels, ecu's and wiring harnesses and we will figure out how to get them into our FJ's! Better yet I'll go play the lottery tonight if I win I'll give away a few diesels myself! Wow, look llike the steam idea is becoming viable, I'll send a letter anyways! :rofl:
There actually is a line of vehicles - at least in Canada, probably the US too - that offers a range of engines, including diesel: Jeep
So I played around with the Jeep Canada Vehicle Configurator
I do recall seeing a couple of Libery CRD last year, apparently Jeep has dropped the CRD option for this year, despite the raising fuel prices. I couldn't figure that one out until I checked out the fuel economy ratings for another Jeep I configured
The 2008 Grand Cherokee Laredo has a wide range of engines: a V6, several V8's, and the CRD by Mercedes. So I picked the basic vehicle with each engine
The Laredo with the 3.7 V6 gas motor can be built for $27,440, and there are regional incentives I didn't factor in. According to Transport Canada, the fuel economy - converted from litres per 100km to miles per Imperial gallon - is 20 city and 28 highway
The Laredo with the 4.7 V8 is option code "28X" and can be built for $33,205. According to Transport Canada, 18 city and 26 highway
The Laredo with the CRD is option code "22X" and can be built for $34,980. According to Transport Canada, 23 city and 31 highway
Probably the reason why the CRD was dropped from the Liberty lineup is that the fuel economy difference between the 3.7 gas and the CRD was so small, by the time you factor in the premium, nobody was willing to pay it
For whatever reason, the Europeans tend to favor diesel as a transport fuel, including huge tax breaks. I'm not going to get into a discussion of the difference in NOx and PM, as it appears the primary motivation for getting a diesel is fuel savings.
It appears at least in one vehicle, the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, you can expect around 20% improvement in fuel economy by ordering the CRD over the 4.7 V8. Is it worth the difference in fuel cost and the diesel engine premium? No.
As fuel prices creep up, we can expect to see a lot more small cars on the road, with vehicles like the FJ relegated to weekend or less duty. I frequently travel to Europe, China, Singapore, and South Korea on business, and with the exception of the newly wealthy in Beijing, everybody drives a small car
A popular car in the EU is the Toyota Yaris. Here the only motor is a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder, which is considered the "hot rod" motor in the EU. Most Yaris in the EU are ordered with a 3 cylinder gas motor or a small 4 cyl turbodiesel
I would not at all be surprised if our fuel prices reach parity with the EU. For most people, expect a radical decline in disposable income as a result
So I played around with the Jeep Canada Vehicle Configurator
I do recall seeing a couple of Libery CRD last year, apparently Jeep has dropped the CRD option for this year, despite the raising fuel prices. I couldn't figure that one out until I checked out the fuel economy ratings for another Jeep I configured
The 2008 Grand Cherokee Laredo has a wide range of engines: a V6, several V8's, and the CRD by Mercedes. So I picked the basic vehicle with each engine
The Laredo with the 3.7 V6 gas motor can be built for $27,440, and there are regional incentives I didn't factor in. According to Transport Canada, the fuel economy - converted from litres per 100km to miles per Imperial gallon - is 20 city and 28 highway
The Laredo with the 4.7 V8 is option code "28X" and can be built for $33,205. According to Transport Canada, 18 city and 26 highway
The Laredo with the CRD is option code "22X" and can be built for $34,980. According to Transport Canada, 23 city and 31 highway
Probably the reason why the CRD was dropped from the Liberty lineup is that the fuel economy difference between the 3.7 gas and the CRD was so small, by the time you factor in the premium, nobody was willing to pay it
For whatever reason, the Europeans tend to favor diesel as a transport fuel, including huge tax breaks. I'm not going to get into a discussion of the difference in NOx and PM, as it appears the primary motivation for getting a diesel is fuel savings.
It appears at least in one vehicle, the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, you can expect around 20% improvement in fuel economy by ordering the CRD over the 4.7 V8. Is it worth the difference in fuel cost and the diesel engine premium? No.
As fuel prices creep up, we can expect to see a lot more small cars on the road, with vehicles like the FJ relegated to weekend or less duty. I frequently travel to Europe, China, Singapore, and South Korea on business, and with the exception of the newly wealthy in Beijing, everybody drives a small car
A popular car in the EU is the Toyota Yaris. Here the only motor is a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder, which is considered the "hot rod" motor in the EU. Most Yaris in the EU are ordered with a 3 cylinder gas motor or a small 4 cyl turbodiesel
I would not at all be surprised if our fuel prices reach parity with the EU. For most people, expect a radical decline in disposable income as a result
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142 Posts
I agree, it is a shame. As the smog regulations, I don't think they are thougher than they are in Germany or other Europen countries were diesels are the norm.
I just moved back from Costa Rica, were I was the proud owner of a Land Cruiser Turbo diesel 4.2 liters that kicked the butt of ANY other SUV in any terrain. My wife had a Nissan Patrol 4.2 litters, on that one I added the turbo and was a hell of a good car too. It was sad to depart from them, but they couldn't be brought into the US because of EPA regulations. Of course I had an FJ40 1980 diesel too:mecry:
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6,534 Posts
No.2 diesel has about 30% more btu's than RUL, that should translate into ~30% better fuel economy. Of course it depends on gearing, transmission, turbo or non-turbo, emissions setup, etc...
If RUL is $4.25 per gallon and Diesel is $5.00 per gallon, then that only a 17.6% price premium. So it will pay off, at some point, depending on the cost of the upgrade and any additional maintenance costs over the stock gasser.
DEWFPO
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