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Hey Guys
I heard my name was getting thrown around a bit so I thought I would stop by and say hello.

If anyone has any specific sound deadening questions I am always happy to help (whether you use Second Skin or not).

You can get me at [email protected], or call my cell - 623.533.8193

We occasionally do group buys for various forums. I am sure I can throw somthing together if there is enough interest.

Give me an idea of what you guys are looking for.
I own an FJ myself, and recently sponsored the Team Maxxsonics (hifonics and MB quart) FJ Cruiser so I am pretty familiar with what it takes to dampen one.


ANT
Sound Deadening
 

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BTW, Someone decided it would be funny to delete all my pics on this site last night, so I have uploaded them to Photobucket here:
:confused: Yeah, what the he||? I just saw 'em a couple days ago. They were just regular photos of an FJ, why would they get erased? Something funny's goin on.
 

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RavenFJ - oh, whew! had me worried about fj gremlins on the website.
 

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Been meaning to show you all this. This is the pocket between the suicide door, and rear wheel well. There is a peice of open cell foam rubber shoved in here, just asking to retain water, and rusting out this point on our FJ's. Plus, it acts like the bell of a trumpet as far as road noise. Pretty hard to sheet this area, bought some spectrum sludge for here, and will use the rest in hard to reach areas.http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/z285/RavenFJ/100-0010_IMG.jpg
 

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I don't know about the"[email protected]" part, but yes, that is my ride. :roller:

Second Skin's motto is "Overbuilt to Overperform", and they mean it. They use an extremely high quality butyl in their product line, and it is evident in the performance of the product. The best quality dampener on the market. Put it this way, they don't have huge advertising costs, if you know what I'm saying.:thinkerg:

I'm sure if we can get a few (5-10) people interested, I can usure you we would get a break on pricing on an excellent product.
I would be interested in this.

Let me know what the price would be. I'd be up for spending around 200 to do the FJ
 

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Ahhh, a picture is worth a 1,000 words...

The 90 degree elbow is threaded at both ends. (bought it at Lowes hardware in the electrical conduit section) Thightned it down on the hole and sealed with exterior 100% silicon.
Egads! You know there are car audio firewall grommets that seal on both sides, and allow wires to pass through, and they look super clean.

Nice install, and not to be rude, but I would never put something like that in my roof. Never. At least use something designed for this kind of thing.

Firewall Bushings at Crutchfield.com

Check those out. Must easier to use than silicon and plumbing stuff.
 

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You like Stinger because it is also a high quality butyl product. They aren't all butyl, and they certainly aren't "all good".
i like stinger because i have worked with all the mainstream products. dynamats lines, damplifier, raamat, hushmat, second skin, etc... they are all the same stickiness, just the stinger is a little easier to work with, and is a little stiffer/more rigid which in turn helps strengthen panels.
 

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i like stinger because i have worked with all the mainstream products. dynamats lines, damplifier, raamat, hushmat, second skin, etc... they are all the same stickiness, just the stinger is a little easier to work with, and is a little stiffer/more rigid which in turn helps strengthen panels.
Certainly not all the same "stickiness".

Sound Deadener ShowdownSound Deadener Showdown
 

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How sticky a product is has nothing to do with how well it performs.
Stickiness is a measurement of tact, which can be related to bond/adhesion strength, but whether a product has a bond rating of 10 lbs per square inch or 1000 lbs per sq inch is irrelevant as long as the product is able to adhere to a resonating substrate without falling off during adverse temperatures.

Asphalt mats will always have the potential to be stickier at higher (usable) temperatures, but since asphalt is temperature dependant the level of stickiness will vary. Put an asphalt mat in the fridge for an hour then see how strong the bond strength is. Not too sticky. Put a hair dryer to it for a minute and watch it tack right up. The reason it gets stickier with heat is because, like I said a minute ago, asphalt is temperature dependant. When you add heat, you are melting the asphalt. When you reduce the temperature, you are freezing it.

Many people think that Freezing = 32 degrees F. or 0 degrees c. This is incorrect. These numbers are only true for water and most water based or water borne liquids. Many other liquids have similar freeze thaw temperatures but water is our main base liquid so we tend to associate everything "freezing" with these numbers.
Think about a lava rock. In its solid forum, it is technically frozen, heat it up enough and it will melt, just like an ice cube. The reason we don’t think of rocks as frozen lava is because we compare everything we know to the 32 degree f. law pertaining to water.

The same goes for asphalt. The freeze/thaw temperature is somewhere in the area of 180 degrees, depending on the other chemicals and level of solid to volatile ratio in the formulation. (Just like we can add salt, propylene glycol, or a number of other chemicals to water to lower the freeze temperature, we can do the same (within natural limitations) to the asphalt.
The problem with asphalt is not matter how much we modify it, it will always be asphalt, and the asphalt part of the formulation, no matter how small will always turn from solid to liquid around 180 degrees.

Another problem with asphalt is the temperature/performance balance; how well it dampens vibrations is completely dependant upon how hot or cold it is.

These types of vibration mats work by absorbing vibrations with an elastomeric layer (asphalt or butyl) this sticky layer is like bubble gum; the hotter it gets, the softer it gets. The softer the adhesive is the less it will dampen vibrations. The more solid the product, the more it vibrations it will dampen.

Because asphalt is temperature dependant it is very temperature affected, which makes it less stable at extreme temperatures; extreme temperatures for a car being in the range of 20 - 220 degrees f.
So basically your asphalt product will dampen much better during the spring and fall, but in the winter and summer, it may only do 20% of its intended purpose.


Now, if we take a look at butyl, this is an entirely different story. Butyl is a curing polymer. Just like cement to concrete, we can not add enough water, to get it to return to its pre-cured form. Once cured, it will always be concrete. Same goes fro butyl. Because it is a cured polymer we can not get it to liquefy, we can burn it or destroy it but can not get it to return to its pre-cured forum. This makes the butyl non- temperature dependant. It is however temperature effected. Butyl will stick whether it is 20 degrees outside or 120 (which can translate to over 200 degrees in the car).
Heat will make it a bit stickier, but whether you heat it up or not, it will adhere and perform as intended at a much wider range of temperatures. The difference is that butyl will never melt, or freeze and will always remain sticky at any usable temperature.

This is why butyl is the ideal product for vibration damping.
When applied to a clean, vibrating surface:

- It will adhere better than asphalt at usable and extreme temperatures
- It will be more stable at a wider range of temperatures allowing for more vibrations to be dampened during extreme conditions or seasons.

Not all butyl is created equal however. Some companies use inexpensive filler to beef up and cheapen down the butyl. Anything you add to the formula either improves or reduces the quality of the formula.

So when looking for a butyl damper, make sure it has not been reduced to half butyl, half inorganic mineral filler.

I think that is all I can type for now...

ANT
Sound deadening
 

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How sticky a product is has nothing to do with how well it performs......
Thank you, thank you for the write-up. I love information like that - it's a big help. Nice to have you on the forum! :bigthumb: :bigthumb:
 

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Installed a Gobi stealth roof rack (aka the noise maker) and needed to do something about the wind noise above 60 mph. Dynamat extreme did the trick. It took a bulk pack and about 3 hours. I also drilled a hole for roof lights and ran the wires. Wiring through the A pillar was too tight. I broke a sweat drilling the hole, you would have thought I was doing surgery on one of my kids.... Pics included (this is the first time adding pics so hopefully I won't goof it up)

The dynamat worked so well that I ordered another bulk pack ($119 plus S&H on ebay) to do the front doors and rer door. Anyone who has dynamated their doors have any tips.
Thanks again GreensboroJohn, I finally got around to working on my roof and wow what a difference, I had done the rest of the vehicle last year and have been very happy. I just ordered the Hood liner off the web for 45 dollars nothing else to Dynamat now.
 

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Hmm... if its simply a mass dampner and not a sound barrier... perhaps we can experiment with cleverly placed hocky pucks glued to underside of roof... I will think on this...

J
 

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Certainly not all the same "stickiness".

Sound Deadener ShowdownSound Deadener Showdown

if i see that link again, i am going to blow some **** up. dampening mats performance (given that you select a quality product) all lies withing the preperation and install, period. dynamat, roadkill, hushmat, raamat, second skin, etc... they are all good products, learn how to apply it and quit blaming it on the product.
 

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Hmm... if its simply a mass dampner and not a sound barrier... perhaps we can experiment with cleverly placed hocky pucks glued to underside of roof... I will think on this...

J

most of the time we are trying to eliminate rattles and vibrations with mat. we do this by adding mass to what we want to keep from vibrating. i say that with a good layer of mat to keep the panel rigid, and some experimenting with stratigicaly placed pucks, that you would be able to achieve the same results, if not better. but where are you going to put the pucks, size is an issue.
 
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