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If you are experiencing body rips or bulges with your FJ, what setup are you running?

  • Stock bumper, no lift

    Votes: 147 28.9%
  • Stock bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 51 10.0%
  • Stock bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 51 10.0%
  • ARB bumper, no lift

    Votes: 6 1.2%
  • ARB bumper, with lift

    Votes: 22 4.3%
  • ARB bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 44 8.6%
  • WARN bumper, no lift

    Votes: 7 1.4%
  • WARN bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 14 2.8%
  • WARN bumper w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 18 3.5%
  • ARB bumper, w/lift, and 255/85 16's

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • ARB bumper, w/lift and 315/75 16's

    Votes: 8 1.6%
  • Demello bumper, no lift

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Demello bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 13 2.6%
  • Demello bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 14 2.8%
  • Road Armour bumper, no lift

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Road Armour bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 10 2.0%
  • Road Armour bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 12 2.4%
  • All-Pro Bumper, no lift

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • All-Pro Bumper, w/ Lift

    Votes: 16 3.1%
  • All-Pro Bumper, w/ lift & 285s

    Votes: 32 6.3%
  • Stock with Skid Plates

    Votes: 34 6.7%

  • Total voters
    509
41 - 60 of 3504 Posts

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OK...I went and took pictures of what I think is a problem with after market bumpers/body damage....

note this is the ARB bumper...the one trail teams use...

Note the size of the gap between bumper and body....at least 1 inch
note the flags on mine...still rubbing at over 1 inch gap
note the body rubs on the side

I have seen a few bumpers with the bumper smashed right up against the front grill...This WILL cause damage in the long run because the frame and the body are NOT connected(note the rubber bushing you are all talking about)
there HAS to be some play in that area
please go check your bumper and tell me if the bumper touches the grill AT ALL...or is there a gap...the gap is absolutely nessisary if your are going to flex this truck as far as some of us do....to be continued...after you gap check

HOMEDAD may be onto something here. I took my laptop out to my FJ to try to locate the exact locations of failure on my rig. I looked a the suspension and tried to picture the wheel travel. It would be very difficult if not nearly impossible for the suspension to transmit the required stress to those points of the body to make it fail that way. Ditto for the wheel travel.
The wheelwell liner is plastic and sheet metal spot welded to the body structure. Pounding on the wheelwell will apply shear stress to the joint and will fail the welded areas first.

The area of the body where the cracks developed are in the crumple zone of the body and it does appear to be slightly compressed in the photos. If the bumper is transmitting stress directly to the body it could failure.

BERND: Did you hit anything with the front bumper?

A 3-D CAD model of the suspension and body could really help clarify what is going on.

Either way, it's difficult to identify how "normal" use in legal terms could have caused this damage.
 

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No I was out side reinstalling my air filter. The warn bumper is a lot closer but I do not see any contact points. I'll run out and look again.
I think the thought is that even if there are no visable contact points at rest, under flex you may be impacting. Is that what you're getting at Homedadr?
 

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So would something like the Light Racing Jounce Shocks fix this?


Well, Todd had those and I guess they didn't.:(
I, too, have stress cracking in the exact same area, and it is growing quickly. I have the jounce bumper on my vehicle, and am running tires that are barely 33" in diameter, not much different than the factory 32" tires. I have never jumped my vehicle, although I do off road it on a regular basis. Keep in mind this area is a crush zone for frontal impacts, so is supposed to give in an accident. However, that has not been the situation with any one else I have seen or heard about. Also, the bumper, suspension, etc. is attached to the frame of the FJC, and this inner fender well area is isolated from those components by the rubber body mounts. Anyone with an aftermarket bumper (or who uses lights on the stock bumper) knows how much vibration is present in the body of the FJC when driving. My guess is this stress cracking is due to the excessive frontal vibration present in the vehicle due to extremely soft / tall body mounts designed for flexibility. While a stiffer suspension and additional weight on the frame may increase the vibration of the front end, I, in no way, believe it would be solely responsible for this type of stress cracking alone. I've owned many, many vehicles, and most I've wheeling more aggressively than my FJC (its an age thing, I guess - maturity ???? - NAW....), but I have NEVER seen body component failure with out evidence of an external collision. I think this, along with the windshield "issue", is another area of concern for fJC owners, and one for Toyota to examine closely for public relations / future sales reasons....

I am very curious at this point, to see the condition of the Trail Team FJCs, both from last year, and this year....Team members, any help here from your loyal customer base ????
 

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Discussion Starter #46
ok I just flexed me rig with some ramps in the driveway and the bumper comes in contact with the body:( . The rip on the diverside( wheel on ramp) is closed up and bumper is touching body. The rip on the Pass> side is opened(back wheel on ramp). I might say that the bumper is causing this problem.:(I'll take pics and post.
 

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ok I just flexed me rig with some ramps in the driveway and the bumper comes in contact with the body:( . The rip on the diverside( wheel on ramp) is closed up and bumper is touching body. The rip on the Pass> side is opened(back wheel on ramp). I might say that the bumper is causing this problem.:(I'll take pics and post.

Bumper contact that severe would cause obvious damage to the outer panels before spreading to the rear inner fender wells. On my FJC, there has been no bumper contact. Also, the stress cracks grow inseverity after they start, so a small crack becomes more pronounced over time, even without any other event affecting them....I've watched mine grow in size over a weekend of street driving...
 

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ok I just flexed me rig with some ramps in the driveway and the bumper comes in contact with the body:( . The rip on the diverside( wheel on ramp) is closed up and bumper is touching body. The rip on the Pass> side is opened(back wheel on ramp). I might say that the bumper is causing this problem.:(I'll take pics and post.

This nail just got it's head wacked....what is happening is....as the frame flexes...the bumper get's pushed up into the front body...the body has nowere to go and the crunch zone is doing EXACTLY what it is supossed to do...

You no longer have a claim with Toyota....you do...on the otherhand... have a claim with Warn or your installer...my guess..Warn...design flaw....

good luck ...and someone better give me some REP points....

good luck...and all aftermarket bumper owners should make damn sure there is a gap for flex!!!
 

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Bumper contact that severe would cause obvious damage to the outer panels before spreading to the rear inner fender wells. On my FJC, there has been no bumper contact. Also, the stress cracks grow inseverity after they start, so a small crack becomes more pronounced over time, even without any other event affecting them....I've watched mine grow in size over a weekend of street driving...
Once the crack starts...it's like rust...it never dies!!!
 

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wrong...the ARB DOES have a gap...in fact check my photos(post#41)...it'a a big gap...most others don't
I run a Demello and it also has a good gap. But it also installs and works a bit differently. So you've had no impact offroad, I know I have had some minor clucks over some tight spots and cracks in Moab, but I have absolutely no signs of this trouble
 

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I, too, have stress cracking in the exact same area, and it is growing quickly. I have the jounce bumper on my vehicle, and am running tires that are barely 33" in diameter, not much different than the factory 32" tires. I have never jumped my vehicle, although I do off road it on a regular basis. Keep in mind this area is a crush zone for frontal impacts, so is supposed to give in an accident. However, that has not been the situation with any one else I have seen or heard about. Also, the bumper, suspension, etc. is attached to the frame of the FJC, and this inner fender well area is isolated from those components by the rubber body mounts. Anyone with an aftermarket bumper (or who uses lights on the stock bumper) knows how much vibration is present in the body of the FJC when driving. My guess is this stress cracking is due to the excessive frontal vibration present in the vehicle due to extremely soft / tall body mounts designed for flexibility. While a stiffer suspension and additional weight on the frame may increase the vibration of the front end, I, in no way, believe it would be solely responsible for this type of stress cracking alone. I've owned many, many vehicles, and most I've wheeling more aggressively than my FJC (its an age thing, I guess - maturity ???? - NAW....), but I have NEVER seen body component failure with out evidence of an external collision. I think this, along with the windshield "issue", is another area of concern for fJC owners, and one for Toyota to examine closely for public relations / future sales reasons....

I am very curious at this point, to see the condition of the Trail Team FJCs, both from last year, and this year....Team members, any help here from your loyal customer base ????
I would like to know that too.

This nail just got it's head wacked....what is happening is....as the frame flexes...the bumper get's pushed up into the front body...the body has nowere to go and the crunch zone is doing EXACTLY what it is supossed to do...

You no longer have a claim with Toyota....you do...on the otherhand... have a claim with Warn or your installer...my guess..Warn...design flaw....

good luck ...and someone better give me some REP points....

good luck...and all aftermarket bumper owners should make damn sure there is a gap for flex!!!
This could be the case.
 

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I wonder if people should consider welding doubling plates in these areas.
 

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Discussion Starter #55

Driver side


Pas. side

OK these are the pics with the truck flexing. I have a ramp under the front driver wheel and one under the rear pass. wheel. The bumper is touching the driverside boby and has moved away from the pas. side(dropped). You can see how the rips are affected also by this type of flex.
 

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This nail just got it's head wacked....what is happening is....as the frame flexes...the bumper get's pushed up into the front body...the body has nowere to go and the crunch zone is doing EXACTLY what it is supossed to do...

You no longer have a claim with Toyota....you do...on the otherhand... have a claim with Warn or your installer...my guess..Warn...design flaw....

good luck ...and someone better give me some REP points....

good luck...and all aftermarket bumper owners should make damn sure there is a gap for flex!!!

This doesn't make sense to me. The front body mounts (at front bumper attach points) have rubber bushings on both sides and should provide enough movement for a little flex in the frame. I'm still thinking that not changing these bushings when doing a lift is putting excessive loads on the front clip. Is there anyone who has not lifted their truck experiencing these cracks? I really dont see how an aftermarket bumper could account for this.
 

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I run a Demello and it also has a good gap. But it also installs and works a bit differently. So you've had no impact offroad, I know I have had some minor clucks over some tight spots and cracks in Moab, but I have absolutely no signs of this trouble
The ARB bolts directly to the frame(or welded in my case)
after install I complained about that gap and was told it had to be there for body flex...
after being on the trail I noticed alot of bumpers that did NOT have the gap and it made me wonder....
so I took my kids play-doh and smashed it into that gap and went wheelin....is was smashed to the point of falling out within 10 minutes...the flex is real....and the gap is absolutely required....the Warn bumper seems to be the snuggest fit...look good...works crappy!!
 

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This doesn't make sense to me. The front body mounts (at front bumper attach points) have rubber bushings on both sides and should provide enough movement for a little flex in the frame. I'm still thinking that not changing these bushings when doing a lift is putting excessive loads on the front clip. Is there anyone who has not lifted their truck experiencing these cracks? I really dont see how an aftermarket bumper could account for this.
the bumper itself pushes into the body...the body has a crumble zone....that is there to suck up the energy of the impact(to save your life)...the pushing of the bumper into the body is causing the stress....the bushings keep the road rattle out of your kidneys...it does not allow for over on inch of flex...and it shouldn't...
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I, too, have stress cracking in the exact same area, and it is growing quickly. I have the jounce bumper on my vehicle, and am running tires that are barely 33" in diameter, not much different than the factory 32" tires. I have never jumped my vehicle, although I do off road it on a regular basis. Keep in mind this area is a crush zone for frontal impacts, so is supposed to give in an accident. However, that has not been the situation with any one else I have seen or heard about. Also, the bumper, suspension, etc. is attached to the frame of the FJC, and this inner fender well area is isolated from those components by the rubber body mounts. Anyone with an aftermarket bumper (or who uses lights on the stock bumper) knows how much vibration is present in the body of the FJC when driving. My guess is this stress cracking is due to the excessive frontal vibration present in the vehicle due to extremely soft / tall body mounts designed for flexibility. While a stiffer suspension and additional weight on the frame may increase the vibration of the front end, I, in no way, believe it would be solely responsible for this type of stress cracking alone. I've owned many, many vehicles, and most I've wheeling more aggressively than my FJC (its an age thing, I guess - maturity ???? - NAW....), but I have NEVER seen body component failure with out evidence of an external collision. I think this, along with the windshield "issue", is another area of concern for fJC owners, and one for Toyota to examine closely for public relations / future sales reasons....

I am very curious at this point, to see the condition of the Trail Team FJCs, both from last year, and this year....Team members, any help here from your loyal customer base ????
Your running the ARB with the same ripping. How bad are yours. Can you post some pics. I'd really like to see them.
 

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the bumper itself pushes into the body...the body has a crumble zone....that is there to suck up the energy of the impact(to save your life)...the pushing of the bumper into the body is causing the stress....the bushings keep the road rattle out of your kidneys...it does not allow for over on inch of flex...and it shouldn't...
There would be considerable "rash" at the point of interaction between the body and bumper. Let's see the pics of that. I still think it's the lifts. I haven't seen 1 account of this from a non-lifted truck with aftermarket bumpers.
 
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