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If you are experiencing body rips or bulges with your FJ, what setup are you running?

  • Stock bumper, no lift

    Votes: 149 28.4%
  • Stock bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 52 9.9%
  • Stock bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 54 10.3%
  • ARB bumper, no lift

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • ARB bumper, with lift

    Votes: 23 4.4%
  • ARB bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 46 8.8%
  • WARN bumper, no lift

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • WARN bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 14 2.7%
  • WARN bumper w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 18 3.4%
  • ARB bumper, w/lift, and 255/85 16's

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • ARB bumper, w/lift and 315/75 16's

    Votes: 10 1.9%
  • Demello bumper, no lift

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Demello bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 16 3.1%
  • Demello bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 14 2.7%
  • Road Armour bumper, no lift

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Road Armour bumper, w/lift

    Votes: 10 1.9%
  • Road Armour bumper, w/lift and 285/70 17's

    Votes: 12 2.3%
  • All-Pro Bumper, no lift

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • All-Pro Bumper, w/ Lift

    Votes: 16 3.1%
  • All-Pro Bumper, w/ lift & 285s

    Votes: 32 6.1%
  • Stock with Skid Plates

    Votes: 34 6.5%

Engine Bay Body Rips

880K views 4K replies 543 participants last post by  bajaramirez 
#1 · (Edited)
PLEASE PM ME, LANDROVER OR DRAGON YOUR CONFIGURATION IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING BULGES OR RIPS IN YOUR FENDERS AND DO NOT SEE IT ON THE LIST.

ALSO PM ME, LANDROVER OR DRAGON IF YOU VOTED THE POLL BY MISTAKE AND WE'LL REMOVE YOUR VOTE. DON'T BE SHY, WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES SOMETIMES:) IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE RESULTS OF THE POLL WITHOUT VOTING, JUST CLICK ON THE LINK IN THE POLL WINDOW THAT SAYS "VIEW POLL RESULTS".


I was cleaning my TRD CA and noticed that my body was ripping. I have a Warn Bumper and the OME heavy lift. The vehicle is mainly used as a trail rig and has never been jumped.




I know this has happened to others on this forum and would like to know what Toyota has done or said. It appears to me that this is a weak spot or there is to much flex allowed. Please any info would be helpful before I take it in to Toyota.


(edit) Toyota is taking care of most FJ's that are showing the signs a bulge or a rip. They are doing it under warranty. The work involves replacing the inner aprons with the newer style apron. This is not a true fix. For as we know( If you have read through this thread) the newer aprons are also bulging along with aprons that have been replaced.

As of today 09-02-2011 the last apron repair is still holding up. No bulges or ripping. I believe that with the platform change and new apron design Toyota has finally solved this problem.


link
NHTS IVOQ - File a Complaint
If you have a bulge please file with the NHTS.
 
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4
#6 ·
Since the bumper is bolted to the frame, it should not affect the body at all.
 
#9 ·
You said you never jumped the vehicle....The same type of body damage that looks like what you have I've seen on here from members that have jumped or that have taken very hard hits (drops). If you look at Air2air's vehicle, this is the same place where his damage happend, his quote was $15,000 worth to fix and I have to tell you, yours is worse then his was....Sorry to hear about it, thats not good. That shows some serious stress cracking....Keep us informed on what happens :(
 
#10 · (Edited)
With only 3 of these reported out of all the FJs on the forum. It would really be nice to hear the whole story on this. This is fishy. Lot's of us wheel extensively, with the same options, and no trouble. Physics isn't random. Is there any more you might be able to tell us? It might be a rare metal defect, but it's hard to imagine.

EDIT: Read my post again. Please don't think I'm doubting your word. I'm just looking for more info. Another thought, have you had a lot of high speed rutted or washboards? Maybe it's something in the design of the ome/shock and their rates. Have you pulled anyone, or had to yank from your bumper tow points. This is so ugly and strange. Makes one a bit worried.
 
#30 ·
The whole story. Well I bought it because it was a trail rig. I use it as a trail rig. I run trails in the PNW and I took it to Ouray. I crawl over large obstacles and don't land hard. I have flexed the rig quite a bit. The trails I run with it I have run numerus times with my CJ-7 prior to buying the FJ. I'm not new to wheeling and am very sad that this has happened. I truelly love this rig and want this problem figured out before more of us see it. I only have 7000 miles on this rig. I am worried for you all also. This is not good:(
 
#11 ·
I was cleaning my TRD CA and noticed that my body was ripping. I have a Warn Bumper and the OME heavy lift. The vehicle is mainly used as a trail rig and has never been jumped.




I know this has happend to others on this forum and would like to know what Toyota has done or said. It appears to me that this is a weak spot or there is to much flex alowed. Please any info would be helpful before I take it in to Toyota.
That looks like fatigue failure (ocurring over many repetitive cycles ). Even if you had jumped it and it failed it would not look like that. Do you know how long it took to develop that crack? It doesn't look it failed at a weld but there does seem a bend that was stamped in the sheet metal right next to that point. This is where fatigue would occur.

Is it by any chance directly above the front suspension mounts? I can't tell from the picture, but I will look at mine and try to reference the location from the photos. If this is the case, the stiffer springs could have contributed. The bumper is attached to the frame, and theoretically it could cause the frame to flex. However, the overhang of the bumper from the front wheels is short so leverage is minimal.

Either way make sure you get as much info as possible and have a solid argument before you see the dealer. You will only get one chance to provide a convincing argument to the adjuster.

Also the obvious, do not go off-road until you get it settled because you may end up paying the repair bill.
 
#13 ·
Guys,

There are several cases out there which describe the exact same phenomenon.
I'm dealing with it too! So far, Toyota ignores it. The fact is that the tire runs into the body on full upward travel. This means that the bump stop is insufficient. YOU DO NOT NEED TO JUMP THE CAR TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN! Inspecting several vehicles, it shows that the tire clearances against the body are all over the place on this vehicle. This means, some vehicles have an issue, some not. Just inspect your front body mounts and check on the height of the rubber piece between left and right. This gives you an idea of how much variation there is...

People who have encountered this problem: please contact me with your email address. The more people we get together the more pressure we can put on Toyota to fix this issue - Thanks!
 
#14 ·
Guys,

There are several cases out there which describe the exact same phenomenon.
I'm dealing with it too! So far, Toyota ignores it. The fact is that the tire runs into the body on full upward travel. This means that the bump stop is insufficient.

This is true if you're running oversize tires.
 
#27 ·
What are you talking about. The vehicle comes stock with 31" tires, not 33"s.
 
#45 · (Edited)
I, too, have stress cracking in the exact same area, and it is growing quickly. I have the jounce bumper on my vehicle, and am running tires that are barely 33" in diameter, not much different than the factory 32" tires. I have never jumped my vehicle, although I do off road it on a regular basis. Keep in mind this area is a crush zone for frontal impacts, so is supposed to give in an accident. However, that has not been the situation with any one else I have seen or heard about. Also, the bumper, suspension, etc. is attached to the frame of the FJC, and this inner fender well area is isolated from those components by the rubber body mounts. Anyone with an aftermarket bumper (or who uses lights on the stock bumper) knows how much vibration is present in the body of the FJC when driving. My guess is this stress cracking is due to the excessive frontal vibration present in the vehicle due to extremely soft / tall body mounts designed for flexibility. While a stiffer suspension and additional weight on the frame may increase the vibration of the front end, I, in no way, believe it would be solely responsible for this type of stress cracking alone. I've owned many, many vehicles, and most I've wheeling more aggressively than my FJC (its an age thing, I guess - maturity ???? - NAW....), but I have NEVER seen body component failure with out evidence of an external collision. I think this, along with the windshield "issue", is another area of concern for fJC owners, and one for Toyota to examine closely for public relations / future sales reasons....

I am very curious at this point, to see the condition of the Trail Team FJCs, both from last year, and this year....Team members, any help here from your loyal customer base ????
 
#19 ·
I did some quick searching, here and on TTORA. I think I'll look into these before larger tires:

Double Convolution Springs - Timbren Aeon Hollow Rubber Springs

I stuck with stock size BFGs even with a Donahoe front and rear lift because I feared the repercussions of the small wheel well and body mount chop. Man did I get flamed for posting that opinion way back when, but better safe than sorry. I think that gives me a bit more leeway than even stock FJs as far as the stops go.
 
#28 ·
I've been thinking about what size tire to get for the longest time... everyone tells me to go to 285 but I don't have a fuzzy feeling about it... on all my race cars I've changed the tire size i needed to make a lot of modifications to make sure i didn't damage the suspension or body...
 
#20 ·
OK, I have a question about your lifts. I've never put a lift in a vehicle and don't know much about them, so bear with me. When you install your body/suspension lifts, do you have bigger spacers for the most forward set of body mounts (right behind fromt bumper attach points)? If this is not adequately spaced, I can see where there would be lots of stress in the area where the failure occurred.
 
#24 ·
I know - you get flamed here pretty quick :)
Thanks for doing the research. But the biggest frustration on this case is the way Toyota acts. I sent them a detailed 9 page report with all facts and arguments why I believe that this is a design/production issue. I want this problem to be solved. I love my truck. But no responce back except: warranty voided due to signs of impact. The signs: scratches on the body. Pretty sad argument, isn't it?
I'm so frustrated about them, that I would rather get rid of my truck now. (yes I know I will get flamed for saying that!)
For sure that this is the first and last Toyota I ever bought. And it seems there is not that much positive feedback to find about their customer service in general....
 
#32 ·
just measured all body mounts, they all are at 1 3/4" except for one front is at 2"...
This makes all the sense in the world now... last week I was fabing up new mounts for my new bumper and I did some measurements from the bumper mount (frame) to some of the body panels and although the mounts were the exact same the measurements didn't add up... rep points to you for pointing that out...
 
#36 ·
Hopefully other owners that spend a lot of time offroad will inspect this area as a result of this Thread and report back. If these cracks start small and propagate there could be lots of folks with a developing problem that aren't even aware of it yet. It would also be interesting to find out if any of the Trail Team FJ's have cracks in this area since they have more miles offroad than most of us. Finding out how widespread these failures are and the circumstances involved would obviously help determine if everyone that does a lot of flexing will eventually have this happen, or if it's confined to modified FJC's, or there's a manufacturing defect peculiar to just a few vehicles.
 
#40 · (Edited)
OK...I went and took pictures of what I think is a problem with after market bumpers/body damage....

note this is the ARB bumper...the one trail teams use...

Note the size of the gap between bumper and body....at least 1 inch
note the flags on mine...still rubbing at over 1 inch gap
note the body rubs on the side

I have seen a few bumpers with the bumper smashed right up against the front grill...This WILL cause damage in the long run because the frame and the body are NOT connected(note the rubber bushing you are all talking about)
there HAS to be some play in that area
please go check your bumper and tell me if the bumper touches the grill AT ALL...or is there a gap...the gap is absolutely nessisary if your are going to flex this truck as far as some of us do....to be continued...after you gap check
 
#41 ·
HOMEDAD may be onto something here. I took my laptop out to my FJ to try to locate the exact locations of failure on my rig. I looked a the suspension and tried to picture the wheel travel. It would be very difficult if not nearly impossible for the suspension to transmit the required stress to those points of the body to make it fail that way. Ditto for the wheel travel.
The wheelwell liner is plastic and sheet metal spot welded to the body structure. Pounding on the wheelwell will apply shear stress to the joint and will fail the welded areas first.

The area of the body where the cracks developed are in the crumple zone of the body and it does appear to be slightly compressed in the photos. If the bumper is transmitting stress directly to the body it could failure.

BERND: Did you hit anything with the front bumper?

A 3-D CAD model of the suspension and body could really help clarify what is going on.

Either way, it's difficult to identify how "normal" use in legal terms could have caused this damage.
 
#46 ·
ok I just flexed me rig with some ramps in the driveway and the bumper comes in contact with the body:( . The rip on the diverside( wheel on ramp) is closed up and bumper is touching body. The rip on the Pass> side is opened(back wheel on ramp). I might say that the bumper is causing this problem.:(I'll take pics and post.
 
#47 ·
Bumper contact that severe would cause obvious damage to the outer panels before spreading to the rear inner fender wells. On my FJC, there has been no bumper contact. Also, the stress cracks grow inseverity after they start, so a small crack becomes more pronounced over time, even without any other event affecting them....I've watched mine grow in size over a weekend of street driving...
 
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