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How I fixed the fuel filler problem

1664 Views 14 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  norm356
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The fuel filling problem is well known, you have to pump very slowly or hold the nozzle in a certain position or the pump will stop after maybe a gallon or two.
I dont have this problem anymore after I did a few things. First, I dumped the dust out of the black filter box you can see on the left side of this picture. It was filled with dust. I found out later that this wont really effect fuel filling but I'm sure removing the dust didnt hurt anything. Next thing I did was blow out the small metal tube that goes up to the filler. that tube is the vent that allows air to displace while you fill the tank. I used a typical air nozzle to blow backwards up thru the tube where the quick disconnect joint is. Then I used 30" of 1.5 inch diameter fuel transfer tubing to replace the steel fuel filling tube. The connection to the tank is a 1.25" hose barb so I used a reducer to get the 1.5" hose down to 1.25 and then a small 6" piece of 1.25" tube to connect to the tank.
I cut the stock fuel filler tube out of the tube assembly while retaining the other hard tubes and the brackets that hold them together. I used a 1" inside diameter piece of hose and a 1"-1.5" reducer to connect to the original filler

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This is looking upward to the filler port. I should have taken pics before i put it together. Sorry oyu cant really see anything here...
Automotive tire Wood Hood Grey Tints and shades


Connecting to the tankl
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I don’t have this problem but forum has been complaining about it for a while. Glad you found a solution. Please keep us updated as to how well it is working.
Curious why it was necessary to replace the 1" pipe, was yours blocked or badly bent?
Body lift solved this problem for me 95% of the time. I guess raising the filler neck that 1" was enough to improve the drainage to the tank.
Ive never had a problem with mine. Even before I did add a 1/2" body lift.

These pics do help to illustrate how low of a slope the OEM configuration has though!
My wife complained about that filling issue all the time, I never knew it was a known problem. Funny thing, it's never happened since I put the lift on it.
While filling the tank all of the displaced air must pass through the charcoal canister and then through the air filter located on the left of MordacP's first photo.

My FJ has never had difficulty filling (note it has no lift) so I've wondered why some have had. Perhaps their air filter has become clogged with dirt preventing free passage of the air.
When I installed an aux tank this past summer I inspected my air filter and it was clean.


Some additional thoughts / observations:
The 1" fill pipe is much larger than the amount of fuel that goes in, so that is unlikely to be it.
The small diameter pipe is for shutting the filler nozzle off (a small jet of fuel shoots up it when the tank is filled, to "tickle" the end of the nozzle and trip its shut off before the 1" column of fuel can come up the neck and splash out).
The third pipe (middle sized) that runs up alongside the main filler pipe is the snorkel for the air filter. It has a "head" wrapped around the main pipe at the top (just a baffle to help prevent dirt getting in).

Anyone having difficulty filling their FJ try this experiment:
- remove and inspect/clean the air filter, and then blow air up that snorkel, toward the filler, to make sure there's no dirt clog.



Norm
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While filling the tank all of the displaced air must pass through the charcoal canister and then through the air filter located on the left of MordacP's first photo.

My FJ has never had difficulty filling (note it has no lift) so I've wondered why some have had. Perhaps their air filter has become clogged with dirt preventing free passage of the air.
When I installed an aux tank this past summer I inspected my air filter and it was clean.


Some additional thoughts / observations:
The 1" fill pipe is much larger than the amount of fuel that goes in, so that is unlikely to be it.
The small diameter pipe is for shutting the filler nozzle off (a small jet of fuel shoots up it when the tank is filled, to "tickle" the end of the nozzle and trip its shut off before the 1" column of fuel can come up the neck and splash out).
The third pipe (middle sized) that runs up alongside the main filler pipe is the snorkel for the air filter. It has a "head" wrapped around the main pipe at the top (just a baffle to help prevent dirt getting in).

Anyone having difficulty filling their FJ try this experiment:
- remove and inspect/clean the air filter, and then blow air up that snorkel, toward the filler, to make sure there's no dirt clog.



Norm
I figured the angle of the stock filler tube was more of a problem than the diameter. When it turns forward to the tank its at a level angle. Maybe why some people have the problem and some dont is because their tube goes slightly downward while others go slightly upward (theory). Maybe when you do a body lift it improves the angle of the filler tube, as some have reported that the problem went away after a lift was done.
So anyway, I figured my flexible tube setup would allow a greater diameter and a consistent downward slide at the same time. It has been working great for a month now.
The only time i have an issue with that is when i use a dispenser with a stage 2 vapor recovery system. Because were i live we dont have a ground level ozone issue so most gas stations dont have the foreskin on the nozzle. The only places that do are gas stations with over a million gallons in throughput like costco.
Norm 356 wrote: "While filling the tank all of the displaced air must pass through the charcoal canister and then through the air filter located on the left of MordacP's first photo."

Are you certain
this is the vent path for air and fuel vapor that are displaced from the fuel tank during a fuel fill? Evidence?

This doesn't correlate with my observations while fueling an FJ or any other vehicle.

Without an actual vapor-proof seal between the fuel fill nozzle and the vehicle's fill port, fuel vapor is free to flow out of the tank through the fill port and out through the clearance between the filler nozzle and the fill port.

That's the reason for the 'foreskin' on the fill nozzle (in areas that require it) that captures the escaping vapor ... without the vapor capture system on the fuel fill pump, the vapor just escapes.

I don't believe the charcoal canister has the flowrate capacity to handle the several cubic feet of saturated fuel vapor that is displaced during a fuel fill - that vapor needs to be captured by the fuel filler pump system.

The charcoal canister under the cargo bay is there to capture any small amount of fuel vapor that may be forced out of the tank because of temperature changes and/or atmospheric pressure changes.

(With no body lift, I have never encountered any problem with premature fuel nozzle shutoff after only 1-2 gallons of fuel are pumped on my 2014. I can usually get another gallon in after the first nozzle shutoff if I rock the vehicle slightly and wait a few seconds before resuming filling.)

The charcoal bed in the engine air intake filter housing is there to capture any small amount of fuel vapor that may escape from the intake manifold (or from cylinders with open intake valves) after engine shutdown.
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When the charcoal canister was increased from the small soup can sized one in the engine room, to the shoebox sized one located as near to the fuel tank as possible, the goal was to get as much of the displaced air through the charcoal as possible (some does go up the filler pipe, but not all of it).

One thing that blew my mind was finding out 1 teaspoon of activated charcoal has the surface area of a football field (!)
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Again, any information source to support this?

Much of the 'enlarged' canister volume is allocated to the vacuum pump, solenoid valves, pressure sensor and associated plumbing for the leak-detection system, not just more charcoal.
Here is a summary about "ORVR", required on light trucks from '06~ (passenger cars from '00~):

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I did find this from Toyota, which doesn't fully answer the question. It looks like there is a primary fuel tank vent line that just terminates at the fuel fill port, but it also has a vent line back through the canister. I could not find a clear description of the function of the 'Refueling valve'.
Font Parallel Rectangle Diagram Engineering


Also, here's a diagram of the ORVR (Onboard Refilling Vapor Recovery) system used on some Toyota models - with this system, fuel vapor is clearly directed back through the canister during fueling. Applicable to FJ?

Font Parallel Rectangle Number Slope
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The really small diameter pipe that runs alongside the filler pipe is to shut off the nozzle when the tank is full.

That sketch isn't clear enough to show it, but the end of the filler neck in the tank is slightly higher than the end of that small diameter pipe. When the fuel reaches it first, a small jet of fuel shoots up it and hits the end of the nozzle, which shuts it off. Its job is to do that before the 1" diameter column of fuel in the main filler neck gets to the top and splashes out into the world.
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