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I could be wrong, but I feel like with lockers, that looks like a hill that could be crawled up.
It appeared to me as if he did have the front locked, just stalled it. We all know how pics and film never capture the grade of an obstacle. And looking at the loose gravel, dirt, combined with washouts, it more than likely got to steep to hold traction.



I don't see how you can bounce that much if you are properly aired down.

http://youtu.be/BvwgiomuDWI

Here is a truck in our local club aired down to 12-14 PSI. Check out the air at 12 SEC.
The only reason I'm posting this is that the accident in the first post reminds me of this climb.
I tried to climb it several times. Walked it, scouted it and then tried to crawl it with just A-TRAC engaged. I tried that 2 times with no luck and had to carefully back down each time. 3rd attempt was with A-TRAC and DIFF locked and some speed. But didn't have enough momentum to get over the first obstacle (12 sec) mark. And there was a big root sticking out of the bank I didn't want to sacrifice the side of the vehicle to make the climb.
Anyway, this 80 makes it. He's locked up and after several failures by many rigs including 40s, FJCs, 60s, 80s, he gets it. He does sacrifice a tire towards the end though.

Not trying to argue here but when people watch this video, they will judge and say too fast, no control. There was one way up this hill and that was it. It was very steep, combined with big rocks, loose rocks and debris.
 

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I don't think he was going too fast, I think given how loose and steep the hill was there was no way he was going to crawl it. His mistake was getting sideways.
 

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I don't think he was going too fast, I think given how loose and steep the hill was there was no way he was going to crawl it. His mistake was getting sideways.
Agreed.

NEVER get sideways on an incline.

That spotter should have had his nose in the dirt and relayed to the driver exactly what the tires were going to encounter.

There should have been at least one of those multitude of guys that should have been yelling at that guy to not turn.

What was he planning on doing? Turning around and going down that incline forward?

I don't try hard inclines if it's dangerous to back down. For instance a loose sand incline that drops off on both sides... kinda like a "sand ramp".
 

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I don't see how you can bounce that much if you are properly aired down.
.....
At a sharp enough angle it doesn't take much... sometimes you don't even notice the front end coming up a little. That's where a little forward momentum is a bit nice, lol.
 

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It appeared to me as if he did have the front locked, just stalled it. We all know how pics and film never capture the grade of an obstacle. And looking at the loose gravel, dirt, combined with washouts, it more than likely got to steep to hold traction.


http://youtu.be/BvwgiomuDWI

Here is a truck in our local club aired down to 12-14 PSI. Check out the air at 12 SEC.
The only reason I'm posting this is that the accident in the first post reminds me of this climb.
I tried to climb it several times. Walked it, scouted it and then tried to crawl it with just A-TRAC engaged. I tried that 2 times with no luck and had to carefully back down each time. 3rd attempt was with A-TRAC and DIFF locked and some speed. But didn't have enough momentum to get over the first obstacle (12 sec) mark. And there was a big root sticking out of the bank I didn't want to sacrifice the side of the vehicle to make the climb.
Anyway, this 80 makes it. He's locked up and after several failures by many rigs including 40s, FJCs, 60s, 80s, he gets it. He does sacrifice a tire towards the end though.

Not trying to argue here but when people watch this video, they will judge and say too fast, no control. There was one way up this hill and that was it. It was very steep, combined with big rocks, loose rocks and debris.
You're right, we're quick to judge and we weren't even there. Heck I could say the same about your friend's 80 - too fast & no control. You can call me an old codger if you want but my rule of thumb is why run when you can walk. On dry hills it's not momentum alone that gets you to the top, it's traction, unless you're in a rock bouncer. :wink
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Too much momentum at the wrong times. I don't understand the rocket launcher approach at the bottom of the hill. I would have started farther back on the flat surface to gain momentum in a flatter surface so I could concentrate on my path up the hill when I got there.

Know where your wheels are
Know what kind of contact your wheels are having with the surface (you should be able to feel wheels slipping)
Know to take off the gas when you loose contact so you don't bounce when it contacts the surface again (I've only done this driving/falling down hill)
Know that ruts are killers and if you can see it out your driver window
Keep body parts inside the vehicle at all times
Keep all your sh!t stowed away
If you have 2 tow straps, a rope and a winch, pick one-use it!
Know your "spotter" or "spectator"
Know that if ya'all stand around recording my fall that I'm gonna be b!tch slappin' yo' asses /neckroll

This is not to belittle the driver in this incident, we are our own worst judges. However, I'm not here to defend him either!

From the site this was posted on (a training group):
Eureka 4WD Training
We had this video sent into us this morning and a ** warning as some viewers might find this disturbing ** Shows how quickly once again it can go wrong for us all off road. Very easy to pass judgement from a computer but in our opinion if working the winch on the front of the vehicle should of been hooked up to a suitable anchor point and the wheels chocked to help prevent the 4WD rolling backwards. Driver remains in 4WD with foot firmly on footbrake in 1st gear.

Seems too much momentum was used when ascending the hill resulting in the typical bouncing of the front end and being thrown off line. We hope everyone involved was ok as this was a bad roll over. Please keep safe out there everyone it can go so wrong so quick.
 

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You're right, we're quick to judge and we weren't even there. Heck I could say the same about your friend's 80 - too fast & no control. You can call me an old codger if you want but my rule of thumb is why run when you can walk. On dry hills it's not momentum alone that gets you to the top, it's traction, unless you're in a rock bouncer. :wink

Yeah, your right. Lots of adrenaline in that climb. I bailed out gracefully. Tried to crawl it several times but there was a nasty ledge half way up that was difficult to bump over. Everyone including myself were getting hung up there. Really steep and loose gravel and ruts below it. So you'd crawl and try to bump over and lose footing. He hit it pretty hard and luckily made it. Blew a tire near the top but no other damage.

Long and short of it, it was beyond the capabilities of my setup and I wasn't willing to take the carnage for bragging rights.
@MissFJ said it well. Knowing when to take your foot off the skinny pedal is important.
 

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I see too many FJ guys really discount the need for roll bars. When i mention my intent to add one I often get " I'm not hard core and don't need one."
This speaks to the need for roll cages when wheeling in situations like that, which is not uncommon in most parks. It looked as if they were trapped in the truck and a roll bar would have been worth the price for the safety and depending on the type (interior vs exterior), reduction in damage.

I really hope they were OK, that sucks bad.
 

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  • I really hope that dude is okay.
  • That seemed to be a dirt bike approach to hill climbing
  • When stopped and crossed up like that, stay stopped
  • use that expensive hardware (winch) up front!
  • keep your arms and legs inside of the vehicle at all times
  • keep your stuff strapped down - cooler, tools, etc. that stuff can bonk you in the noggin when bouncing around
 

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I see too many FJ guys really discount the need for roll bars. When i mention my intent to add one I often get " I'm not hard core and don't need one."
This speaks to the need for roll cages when wheeling in situations like that, which is not uncommon in most parks. It looked as if they were trapped in the truck and a roll bar would have been worth the price for the safety and depending on the type (interior vs exterior), reduction in damage.

I really hope they were OK, that sucks bad.
Even though you make a valid point I for one don't have intentions of installing a roll cage in my FJC. Yes we take risks every time we ride in a park with the types of obstacles shown in the video and mistakes happen. As @Joabmc stated, I need to know the limits of my equipment and my skill level. Choose not to push the challenge beyond your comfort level. What does your gut say?

We all should take notes from the video and burn the images into our memories - what would we do differently to prevent the roll; slow down, lock the brakes, pull the winch line? Absolutely IF we new what the end result was going to be. We would also react much quicker and have folks stationed in the event there was a compromise like the engine stall.

This was a sad event, but one we all should learn from. One other note, always wear your seat belt! A must do!

MissFJ, thanks for sharing. All your points are spot on. :rocker:
 

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Even though you make a valid point I for one don't have intentions of installing a roll cage in my FJC. Yes we take risks every time we ride in a park with the types of obstacles shown in the video and mistakes happen. As @Joabmc stated, I need to know the limits of my equipment and my skill level. Choose not to push the challenge beyond your comfort level. What does your gut say?

We all should take notes from the video and burn the images into our memories - what would we do differently to prevent the roll; slow down, lock the brakes, pull the winch line? Absolutely IF we new what the end result was going to be. We would also react much quicker and have folks stationed in the event there was a compromise like the engine stall.

This was a sad event, but one we all should learn from. One other note, always wear your seat belt! A must do!

MissFJ, thanks for sharing. All your points are spot on. :rocker:

Even knowing your limits and being skilled, bad things still happen. You see rolls at pro-off road events where the guys know their lines and limits. My take is if you plan to wheel much, and you are risk averse (like I am), spend the 3k and consider it good insurance. Could be as drastic as life or limb. I've put more that 3k into other trail damage repairs long ago. But I get it, for many it's an eye sore and not a practical mod, detracts from resale and practicality of daily driving, if it's not modded to that point already.
 

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I wonder how many there knew how to use the hi-lift jack accessories perma-bolted to their trucks to get that RR back on its wheels safely & get the driver out?
 
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