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No diesel for me. Gas is 4.00 for 87 octane, diesel is 4.80 gal. Not to cheap to run as they used to be.:mecry:
When diesels can achieve a 50% increase in efficiency, there is still plenty of savings to be had even at the higher diesel prices.

I'll second the opinion on the smaller pickups.
 

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I'm going to a dinner party in a couple of weeks with the CEO of Cummins. If I get a chance I plan to get the low down on what they've got in the pipeline.
 

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Scroll down to page 13 to see how the new 4.2 and 5.6 liter Cummins engines (which were in development with the Dept of Energy when this was written) compare with the 4.7 and 5.7 liter gas engines. Almost 50% increase in the combined driving averages.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2004/session9/2004_deer_stang2.pdf

Notice that these tests are dated 2004 which helps you understand how slowly things progress from development and testing to actual production . . . which helps explain why we aren't already driving diesel FJs.

One or both of these diesels is slated to be released in the Dodge Ram 1/2 tons in 2009 as a 2010 model. Ford and Chevy also have small diesel in development for their 1/2 ton trucks to be released about the same time.
 

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I don't need or want a fast truck either, so like carrotzilla said a smaller diesel is the answer (just not too much smaller). The 3.0L TD will do just fine for me, get better MPG's, have buttloads more torque and crawl like a unimog.

But really I don't care. Find some HINO motor and slide her in there. Come on Toyota! Take more of my $$$ and make me an even more hardcore Toyota lover.
I'll second that. Folks have been way to spoiled by cheap gas, high horsepower, and vehicles that are much faster than is necessary. Of course, using the newer Mercedes diesel as an example, they have found that, even though the horsepower is lower, the massive torque can give impressive performance . . . and mileage.
 

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As far as justifying a turbo diesel, I'd like to recommend that you look at it a different way. As an example: I have been shopping for a turbo diesel pickup, either late model used or new, and have found that a diesel pickup normally has a resale at least $5-6K more than the gasser. Since, $5-6K is about what the diesel option was in the first place I look at it as if the diesel option justifies itself by giving you that much more resale value. Of course, this view only applies if you plan to replace your vehicle every so many years. However, if you justify your diesel based on the higher resale, it basically makes the money saved due to better mileage "found money". In addition, during your time of ownership, you get the benefits of more power and better towing.
 

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The thing I liked about diesel it the possibility of making your own biodiesel; you can make it for ~$0.50-0.75 a gallon if you can get waste veggie oil for free (my neighbor's own a mexican restaurant; check!). And you can run that without any mods to the vehicle whatsoever.

Or you can spend a couple grand on engine mods and then run straight veggie oil without having to convert the oil to bio-d, but not sure that's worth it, especially if you have to try and get any warranty work done.
Don't plan on running pure bio in any new diesels. None of the manufacturers will allow more than 20% (and some only allow 5%) without voiding the warranty and the high pressure injectors may not allow it if you try. Go for something old with mechanical injectors if you want to play with pure bio.

In addition, I here lots of folks talking about running pure bio but you'd better have a source with an agreement in writing because there are already lots of folks doing this and there are businesses set up with agreements to take away much of the veggie oil that the restaurants dispose of (especially in the cities).
 

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Everything I've read says that pure diodiesel (NOT SVO, or straight veggie oil) will work just fine in any diesel motor. the SVO is much more viscous and requires different injectors and glow plugs, OR some people run two tanks, but that is NOT the same thing as biodiesel.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, B5 - B20 is acceptable depending on the brand. I could have swore you said you were planning to make your own using waste vegetable oil. I don't quite understand how you will make anything other than SVO when your only input is SVO. What am I missing ?
 

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For a full size pickup, i can defenatly see the benifit. In fact, if i was in the market for one, it would defenatly be a diesel since the main reason i'd be buying one would be for hauling, and towing. As for resale value, i personally don't feel thats should be a contributing factor deciding a purchase,espeacally a diesel. Nothings garranteed, and with gas prices skyrocketing, espeacailly diesel, that could acctually backfire on you. As far as power goes.... well, not all diesels outpower gassers. (toyta's 3.0 TD, and the liberties diesel for example) Again, towing wise, thats just not the FJ's for-tay, so for me personally, wouldn't factor in a diesel for a rig this size. Bottom line is this..
I'm not going to convince you that you don't want a diesel in an FJ. Your preety set on one. Nothing wrong with that. I'm in no way really trying to convince you other wise. I just hope that if toyota does do this, they'll get it right the first time.
I would be disappointed if Toyota came out with a diesel FJ this year or next only because I have already bought mine and will not sell such a new vehicle just to upgrade. If they were to do it and get it right the first time, as you said, it would be a great vehicle.

You are right that diesels don't outpower all gassers and I don't have a problem with that in the FJs. Power isn't the ultimate goal in the FJs case as it might be in a towing pickup. Due to the high-strung powerband of the FJ, unless you crank it up you cannot access the 239hp. A 150 hp diesel (or gasser for that matter) with peak power around 2000 rpm would be more than adequate. In fact, the torque would probably make it perform as well as the gasser. BTW, the Jeeps diesel is a dog and a poor excuse for a diesel.

I remember the good old days with my '93 Ford F150 with 300ci incline 6. Only 145hp but plenty of torque down low. You could lug it in fourth gear at not much more than an idle. Empty it would get about 20mpg highway but still able to haul way more than it was made to (80-50lb bags of fertilizer) and pull more (10,000lb+ bulk fertilizer and ammonia trailers) than it was supposed to. Best engine Ford ever made.

Similarly, Toyota inline 6 from the Land Cruisers was well know for good usable power and long term durability.

Of course, towing isn't all that diesel power is good for. Have you seen the list of new diesels coming out in the next few years ? Nearly every manufacturer will have diesels available in their lineup within the next 1 1/2 to 3 years. Announcements have been made by GM, Ford, Nissan, and Dodge to have them available in half-ton pickups and large SUV. . . also, Honda's Accord and Civic, VWs(of course), Subaru, Mercedes, Audi, and pretty much everyone else. They've all come to the realization that a good diesel is better than a hybrid. However, a diesel hybrid may be the most efficient of all.
 

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I love diesels but I don't drive for long enough periods to keep it running right. My driving is mostly stop and go however 20% is spent in the woods where the engine is left running a lot. Maybe I do need a clackety-clack. The office Chevy's sure run nice and have enough torque to alter Earth rotation.
You're living in the past. Modern diesels can be basically used and driven the same as a gasoline engine.
 

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Same problem here FJoel. However, although we may never see a diesel FJ in its current form (assuming the rumors of discontinuation are true) there are many new diesel vehicles slated to be release in the next year or two.

I still have my eyes on a rust free International Scout that a friend of mine inherited last year. None of that extra crap to deal with so it would be a pretty simple install for a small diesel. I think I might be wearing him down.
 

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hehe . . . pickup hickups. That's a new one 5150.

The good news on the big Ford 6.4 liter . . . right now, if you can find an 08 that fits your needs, you can get a 50-52K pickup for 30K. I'm in the market for a different diesel truck but the Ford is my last choice(actually all the new ones are low on my list due to ridiculous hit to their mileage that the DPFs have incurred). Looks like I'm going for an 06 Ram with 5.9. :rocker:
 

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I test drove a new '06 with 5.9L and 6-spd manual, and loved it! Engine ran great, sounded great, and transmission shifted great with easy clutch effort. It flat hauled when you gassed it, too. It was just plain fun. I'm kicking myself now for having not bought it, but it was just a bit over my budget at the time (No big discounts available then).

Michael
There are a lot of 06's in great condition on the market with less than 40K miles, especially if you don't mind one of them trucks with the 6 1/2 ft "grocery-getter" bed. Long beds are a bit more scarce.
 

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A pickup with a 6.5 ft box. What's the point? If I can't throw 4x8 sheets of osb, or 8 ft long 2x6's, into the box without leaving the tailgate open, I don't want it
I agree. Every time I see a 3/4 ton or 1 ton diesel with a 6 1/2' bed, I just think, "now there is someone that really doesn't need a heavy duty pickup." Of course, this is a little unfair of me as many only have the truck for pulling a camper or other trailer. Then again, I'm the guy that currently has a 6 1/2' 1/2 ton and sometimes hauls as much as 4,000 lbs(80 bags of fertilizer at 50lbs each) in the bed and pulls as much or more than 10,000 lbs (bulk fertilizer). I'm working out an ebay deal on a diesel Ram right now.
 

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i always laugh how people put out ridiculous mileage claims for diesel versions of a vehicle--as if the mileage will double or some crap like that.

you get tons more torque, a funny odor, and maybe a 20% economy bump with fuel that costs a dollar more per gallon.
It depends on lots of factors. A friend with a 6.0 gas Chevy will get on 11-12 when pulling less than 5,000 lbs on his flatbed and another with a 6.6 Duramax gets 17-18 when pulling a horse trailer of 7,000+lbs (loaded).

I used to have a Dodge Ram 1/2 ton that would average 14-16 on the highway yet I know several folks with 06 or older Rams that get anywhere from 20-24 mpg unloaded when driving reasonably.

If you need the power, diesels cannot be beat. If you're a stupid high school punk or the average suburbanite that never tows or hauls very heavy loads, then a gasser is the way to go . . . especially with the increased efficiency of the new 1/2 tons.

BTW, it isn't just vehicles on the road that benefit from diesel. The same reasons apply to farm and construction equipment. For example, we used to have three under 60hp tractors on the farm because they were bought used and cheaper to buy. Several years ago, we unloaded some coin on a new Ford diesel and never looked back. We then bought another Ford diesel and then a New Holland diesel skid loader. Our overall gallons used dropped by 1/3 or more, the tractors have more usable power, and the field work gets done quicker because the added torque allows larger implements and/or higher field speeds.
 

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Diesel costs 85% more than gas!!! Man, where do you live.

p.s.: Diesel should cost less than gas because it is cheaper to refine and you get more per barrel of oil than with gas. Biodiesel is cheaper to make than ethanol is more productive per acre and does not degrade MPG.

Our current problem: In the US right now, some states tax diesel at a higher rate than gas. Demand vs. supply is also higher than with gasoline right now - that will change as oil companies are making more money on diesel and will ramp up production to meet demand. Eventually, diesel will be cheaper everywhere.

I was in British Columbia, Canada, Spokane, Washington, and Indiana today and diesel is at least 50% more everywhere.

It's late so I can't remember everything but I believe diesel production does compete for the same grade of crude used for heating fuel and diesel does not yield distillates during production as gasoline does (do you ever wonder where your paint thinners and solvents come from ?) These distillates allow the manufacturers to get more $$$ of product from a barrel of oil used to produce gasoline than for a barrel used to produce diesel. Hence, cheap gas.

If I recall correctly, a by product of the production of gasoline is hydrogen and hydrogen is required as an input for the production of diesel. Since ethanol has been supplanting some of the gasoline production, this has also increased the production costs of diesel. Someone correct me if this is wrong but I read it a few months back.
 

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Point being if this is the kind of perfomace that will net close to 40mpg, then europe and other parts of the world can keep it..
I ask that you think differently about this . . . First, this thinking is largely resposible for todays problems. Too many people think they have to have the ablility to get to 60mph in six or seven seconds regardless how huge their vehicle is yet, just how many of us floor the accererator every time we leave an intersection ?

Do you think a 8, 10, 12, or 13 second 0-60 is dangerous ? I guess every commercial motor vehicle on the road is inherently dangerous as every one takes much longer than that and most people driving passenger vehicles don't get there any quicker as they aren't driving agressively.

I don't think I have ever flat-out floored my FJ for any reason and many, many FJ owners having been following the 2,000 rpm rule in order to maximize mileage.

I've mentioned before that few people need the power the FJ currently has. The hp/torque curves put the max power beyond where most of us ever access it and if you compare these curves with that of many small diesels you will see that the diesel has superior power when driven as we are driving the FJ(mostly below 2,000 rpm and rarely above 3,000). A 150hp/300torque diesel would be an excellent and efficient choice.

Actually, new half ton pickups are starting to average in the 20's (well, highway miles at least). Good news is when Ford Chevy and Dodge do decide to come out with the half ton diesel trucks, i'd be expecting them to produce at least mid twenties considering the fuel economy that there gas counterparts are currently getting. Well have to wait and see..
FYI, Cummins developed the new Cummins diesel in cooperation with the Department of Energy and testing with a regular cab/2wd/1/2 ton yielded 27 mpg. Pretty close to what you're thinking.
 

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In regards to the comment about diesel being cheaper in Europe . . . this is not because it is cheaper to produce.

"Lee Schipper, a former oil industry executive who leads a transportation and environmental study program at the World Resources Institute, said that what pushed European drivers to diesel was a tax policy that made the fuel cheaper . . ."
 

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If I could go back in time to before I bought the FJ, I would buy a clean mid-90's Land Cruiser and have a diesel dropped in it . . . Wait ! I'd skip the diesel since that straight six goes forever the way it is. Sure, it gets sucky mileage but I'd have about $20 grand for gas and mods before I get to what I have in this vehicle.
 

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It's nice to see that dieseltoyz finally posted up a diesel install.

I know several Cummins engineers as well as neighbor and my nephew who attended college for diesel mechanics/management and I try and try to convince someone to start a shop around here doing Cummins retrofits in older vehicles but so far no luck.

Having been in Vancouver just a couple weeks ago, I was impressed at how many diesels are on the road. FJoel, do you get more of the diesel choices that Europe is able to get and we are unable to get ?
 
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