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FJ Expeditions R Us
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Diesel?

You betcha Red Rider!

cheers,

dale
 

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Diesel?

You betcha Red Rider!

cheers,

dale


Debbie Downer here...


look at us now "the greatest..." begging Japanese to sell us a diesel and praying Arabs will lower gas prices by X-mass


not funny........


Shouldn't the American Government have some poeple responsibe for forseeing such events ($130/barrel). I mean we spend trillions on military but didnt pay some schmuck 60k to kinda warn us that it might happen.
Shouln't somebody maybe 10 years ago suggested that it's a good idea to have new mpg rating and emission standards.
hindsight is 20/20
 

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with todays gas prices I will sell my fj in the next couple of month


will never buy an suv again, just too expensive


diesel fj, with 30mpg, why not :)

30mpg? Very unlikely. If a diesel very did happen, 30MPG would be very doubtful with the new emissions regulations. not to meantion the FJ is a brick wall going down the road. We'd be lucky if it got mid 20's and even thats being a bit optamistic.

Debbie Downer here...


look at us now "the greatest..." begging Japanese to sell us a diesel and praying Arabs will lower gas prices by X-mass


not funny........


Shouldn't the American Government have some poeple responsibe for forseeing such events ($130/barrel). I mean we spend trillions on military but didnt pay some schmuck 60k to kinda warn us that it might happen.
Shouln't somebody maybe 10 years ago suggested that it's a good idea to have new mpg rating and emission standards.
hindsight is 20/20

yes, they do. And yes they have known that this was coming for quite a while. Manufactuers were told back in 03 that they were going to need to create diesels that would need to meet new emissions regulations by 2012 as well as the new 35mpg standard by the same date.
 

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30mpg? Very unlikely. If a diesel very did happen, 30MPG would be very doubtful with the new emissions regulations. not to meantion the FJ is a brick wall going down the road. We'd be lucky if it got mid 20's and even thats being a bit optamistic.
35mpg by 2012, thats exactly what I'm talking about, too little too late

dude you're one of those people who really dont know about diesels or modern engines. You've heard about hybrids and thats about it.

2.0 liter diesel cars like VW Jetta, Mercedes C class, BMW 320 get 40-55mpg today
4 liter v8 by audi get audi q7 to 27-30, and trust me you dont need a v8, 2.5L 4 banger diesel will do the job
 

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dude you're one of those people who really dont know about diesels or modern engines. You've heard about hybrids and thats about it.

2.0 liter diesel cars like VW Jetta, Mercedes C class, BMW 320 get 40-55mpg today
4 liter v8 by audi get audi q7 to 27-30, and trust me you dont need a v8, 2.5L 4 banger diesel will do the job
Excuse me? Read some of my previous posts in this thread. I'm a mechanic by trade buddy. Please don't make a claim that i have no knowledge of moderen engines when YOU have no knowledge of my back ground.

I understand that diesels can get great mileage, but all the vehicles exept the audi Q7 basicly an SUV based on a car) you have meantioned are small compact cars and sedans. You can't compare a VW jetta TDi to an FJ or any truck diesel for that matter.To completely differnt vehicles. Also, most of the cars you meantioned are only avaible in europe and don't have to comply to the U.S.'s smog requirments. Thats one of the reasons you don't see many diesels in the U.S. With gas pricing rising, in my areaa in some places diesel is a dollar more a gallon than gas, and in an FJ, the only real benifit a diesel would be the mileage. If they can in fact get a new Fj to get over 30MPG, decent power, i don't see there being a point in building one.
 

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you're a typical us mechanic, stuck in the 80's, not unlike our cars and the "big three" ideology

your mechanical skills ended with 1980's cars or 1990's us cars, yet believe it or not, most car companies are far ahead of anthing you know or studied.....


q7 is a full time 4wd suv 2.5 tons of a car, 6 speed tranny

also look at mercedes gl320 diesel, even bigger then the q7, better milage 30-32mpg according to euro tests (main difference is the 7speed tranny)

thats how you get good mpg, good drag coeficient, great engine and tranny
 

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If they can in fact get a new Fj to get over 30MPG, decent power, i don't see there being a point in building one.

you dont think 30% mpg improvement is a big deal?


by the way all of you who think fj's drag coefficient makes any difference here are some numbers:

.25 Honda Insight
.26 Toyota Prius
.27 Nissan GT-R
.34 GMC Acadia
.36 Bugatti Veyron (spoiler retracted)
.36 Chevrolet Suburban
FJ CRUISER .40
.48 Classic VW Beetle
.65 Tractor Trailer (with fairings)
.75 Formula 1 Car (downforce = high drag)

75% of the problem is engine and tranny, the rest is weight, drag, tires etc etc.....
 

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you dont think 30% mpg improvement is a big deal?


by the way all of you who think fj's drag coefficient makes any difference here are some numbers:

.25 Honda Insight
.26 Toyota Prius
.27 Nissan GT-R
.34 GMC Acadia
.36 Bugatti Veyron (spoiler retracted)
.36 Chevrolet Suburban
FJ CRUISER .40
.48 Classic VW Beetle
.65 Tractor Trailer (with fairings)
.75 Formula 1 Car (downforce = high drag)

75% of the problem is engine and tranny, the rest is weight, drag, tires etc etc.....
Thats a big "If" they can get 30mpg, whitch is very doubtfull. And mid to low 20's is not enough to make up for the added initial cost, fuel cost and added mantaince that costs. I'm in no way an anti-diesel guy either. Its just that in this paticular case, i don't see a huge advantage that others think a diesel will over come the gasser. I'm just trying to be realistic. Again, if toyota can get a diesel that can get near 30mpg, has decent power can pass CA emissions (whitch many small diesel SUV's sold in the U.S. have failed to do) then they might have a winner.

As for drag coeffcient, yes it does make a differnce. Ask anyone who has an aftermarket roof rack. Espeacailly at freeway speeds above 60mph. I see a huge differnce in my mileage when i go above 65, where other vehicles i drive doesn't make a severe in impact on mileage. Yes i understand that other factors come inot the equation such as wieght, rotating mass and such, but aero dynamics do come into the equation.
 

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having owned a very large diesel pickup, which is now back in my dad's possession, i can attest to the torque, and with the right mods you can get it to produce decent acceleration figures.

the problem is that, unlike with cars, diesel trucks don't give that OMGAWESOME fuel economy. they do deliver massive amounts of torque, which is awesome for towing, and maybe for crawling, but most of toyota's 'petrol' truck engines produce pretty robust low end torque and any engine benefits can be offset with the proper gearing.

not to say that a detroit desel upgrade over the unfortunate 2F engine isn't a bad thing. i've driven 60 series that were converted to the old chevy diesels and they enjoy torque and economy benefits over the boat anchor toyota engine, but with the FJ we'd probably see 22 mpg, maybe 25 at best, but i'd seriously doubt anything over the 20 mark, honestly. this is an overall improvement, but not sure if the raging cost of diesel would we worth it.

that and the engine in the truck would be a noisy, puny 4cyl prado diesel, and not some of the tank engines they stuff into the LC76, or the aforementioned detroit diesel, so i really wouldn't be too excited over it.
 

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you're a typical us mechanic, stuck in the 80's, not unlike our cars and the "big three" ideology

your mechanical skills ended with 1980's cars or 1990's us cars, yet believe it or not, most car companies are far ahead of anthing you know or studied.....


q7 is a full time 4wd suv 2.5 tons of a car, 6 speed tranny

also look at mercedes gl320 diesel, even bigger then the q7, better milage 30-32mpg according to euro tests (main difference is the 7speed tranny)

thats how you get good mpg, good drag coeficient, great engine and tranny
Wow. I like you mentality. Your the "I'm right your wrong, all euro cars ruleand everything else sucks ass." not so.
You don't know me, nor do you know my background so i really don't apreaciate you insults. You don't agree with me then fine. If your not going to add anything to the conversation, then keep out of it. Throughing out insults as come backs only makes yourself look stupid and doesn't help the situation at hand.
Oh, and 30, 32mpg? Nope. In testing the average showed 20 to 25mpg, and again, this the GL320 isn't avaible in all states due to emissions, and aceleration number are also significantly slower than its gasser counterpart.
 

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Maybe we should let the market dictate what is viable after we get the Government out of the equation. I must say that in my job I drive F350's and 3500's diesels and they do their task quite well but I prefer a gas motor to JP8 for daily commuting. Quite the expense is involved @ oil changes with the big D's.
 

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I would purchase an FJ diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
Bring it on ... I would be in the line right behind Joel.
So long as you are behind me and I get to drive mine off the lot FIRST! :lol:

Just kidding. Keep this thread going, no attacking other members! If this gets shut down and I never see a diesel FJ I'll... I'll...

I'll go cry! :mecry:

I like your attitude CanadaFJ. :cheers:
 

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I like your attitude CanadaFJ. :cheers:
Thank you! And I love my battery clamp! Next time I am in BC, we have to try and get together so I can buy ya a :cheers:
 

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Same here I want a diesel FJ! PERIOD!!!!
 

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Hope Toyota realizes this thread has the most posts in this discussion group.

I have read this entire thread and I love my Toyota diesel. My HJ has turned into a daily driver during this summer because it get the best mileage of all my trucks. The FJC gets 15mpg, 4Runner gets 17mpg, and the HJ gets 23 mpg (23 is the worst, 28 the best). I have done some moderate wheeling with the HJ and can happily feel the difference in torque with lower RPMs. I pulled an FJ-80 Landcruiser out of a mudhole once and was amazed how little effort was necessary. I would buy a VW Toureg TDI if I could afford one, looked for the new Grand Cherokee diesel, but couldnt find one. At this point, I regret my FJC purchase due to economy/gas prices, but definitely would be in line for a diesel FJC w/ mid 20 gas mileage or better.
 

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As per my name it is a BJ Cruiser of nothing for me. My parents caved a couple months ago and bought a FJ Cruiser so there is one in the family, but I will hold out until a diesel is released. I just may never get one at this rate.
 

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Refineries are not set up to produce Diesel fuel at the current (and growing) level of demand. It's not just the tax that's doing it. Diesel fuel (for trucks) is competing with home heating and other oils, etc. Until refineries retool... get used to high diesel prices... they're not going away.
There really isn't anything to "retool." In the EU, refineries produce a greater proportion of distillates to gasolines, here the refineries produce a greater proportion of gasolines to distillates

Little of a modern refinery is "straight run" anymore, the fuel quality isn't high enough to work in modern electronically controlled engines. A great deal of hydrotreating is needed to remove contaminants and sulfur from the straight-run process

The sludge at the bottom of the Crude Distillation Unit is sent through a Vacuum Distillation unit, which can recover process oils that can be hydrotreatd, further treated in a Fluidic Catalytic Cracker, to yield distillates and - if sent through a Alkylator, gasoline blends.

The mid level tray draws in a CDU are hydrotreated to remove sulfur and other things, and sent to bulk oil, distillate and gasoline storage. A lot of motor oil basestock is derived from medium and lower level tray draws at the CDU

Upper level aromatics from the CDU, primarily naphthas, are hydrotreated, then sent to Isomerization to yield gasoline blends. The isomerized fluid is then sent through a catalytic reformer to yield more gasoline blends, aromatics like propane, butane, ethane, and hydrogen gas. The H2 is a necessary component of most catalytic reactions in an oil refinery

If one desires more diesel fuel, this is done by process changes - usually in realtime - at the CDU. Doing so will lower the overall efficiency of the CDU and the refinery as a result
 
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