[DrSolar]

This should put a big damper on the old IFS can't go where SFA can go argument that continues. If someone posted this already, well here it is again. Very nice pictures.

All-Pro's FJ Cruiser Challenge at The Hammers - IH8MUD™ Forums

FJ's Rule!! :rocker:

 

[breauxtus]

Very respectfully, I simply could NOT DISAGREE MORE. These drivers are excellent wheelers and yet nearly all experienced significant breakage or the need to go heavy on the throttle. Throttle is no substitute for being able to keep all wheels on the ground, pulling, flexing and all working the same.

Indeed, hats off to the IFS group for pulling off a first in terms of the IFS group doing Claw Hammer. I bow down. However, my guess is that the SFA rigs made it pretty much look easy. Throw an inchworm, an SFA and a front locker into an FJ and it makes it infinitely more capable.

My two cents.

 

[Sean K.]

Exactly....

IFS blows compared to live axle for rockcrawling. There really is NO DEBATE about this.

It's a foregone conclusion that only the ill-educated or completely inexperienced would bother to argue.

Sean

 

[mir207]

Very respectfully, I simply could NOT DISAGREE MORE. These drivers are excellent wheelers and yet nearly all experienced significant breakage or the need to go heavy on the throttle. Throttle is no substitute for being able to keep all wheels on the ground, pulling, flexing and all working the same.

Indeed, hats off to the IFS group for pulling off a first in terms of the IFS group doing Claw Hammer. I bow down. However, my guess is that the SFA rigs made it pretty much look easy. Throw an inchworm, an SFA and a front locker into an FJ and it makes it infinitely more capable.

My two cents.

And a long travel suspension for those live axles. x2

 

[breauxtus]

And a long travel suspension for those live axles. x2

Absolutely!

 

[FJ FunJunkie]

I just want a harrier style hover system, Unstoppable:rofl: IFS is capable for crawling, Just not as capable as SFA. Now if we are talking Baja racing, I might lean toward the IFS with Long travel.

 

[JonB]

Very respectfully, I simply could NOT DISAGREE MORE. These drivers are excellent wheelers and yet nearly all experienced significant breakage or the need to go heavy on the throttle. Throttle is no substitute for being able to keep all wheels on the ground, pulling, flexing and all working the same.

Indeed, hats off to the IFS group for pulling off a first in terms of the IFS group doing Claw Hammer. I bow down. However, my guess is that the SFA rigs made it pretty much look easy. Throw an inchworm, an SFA and a front locker into an FJ and it makes it infinitely more capable.

My two cents.

Actually for 80% of the drivers it was their first time rockcrawling on a trail of this caliber. One FJ broke a tie rod and a rear ring & pinion at the same time and one broke a cv at the end of the trail. There was no body damage or breakage of any other kind on the trip. Everyone worked together and did an excellent job in my opinion. Does an IFS work as good as a straight axle rockcrawling? No, but you'd be suprised at what a well set up IFS FJ will do.

JonB

 

[breauxtus]

Actually for 80% of the drivers it was their first time rockcrawling on a trail of this caliber. One FJ broke a tie rod and a rear ring & pinion at the same time and one broke a cv at the end of the trail. There was no body damage or breakage of any other kind on the trip. Everyone worked together and did an excellent job in my opinion. Does an IFS work as good as a straight axle rockcrawling? No, but you'd be suprised at what a well set up IFS FJ will do.

JonB

No doubt at all. You guys did some amazing stuff out there. Moreso now considering that first sentence there. Also consider they had the entire AllPro crew there spotting and helping to fix things. What would have the carnage been like had AllPro not been along? Probably pretty dramatic situation.

I know very well what IFS will do. I still run mine. But, the SFA is the first mod I'll do once my warranty expires. I'm not trying to build a buggy, mind you. I'm just trying to keep the tires on the ground so I can have as much control as possible when I'm out there. I also wheel alone the bulk of the time, which I know is a bad thing, but it's the way it works out. I also don't wheel the piss out of it. I actually enjoy wheeling, but for the most part, my wheeling is to get to a place my wife and I can camp without seeing another person camping anywhere near us, and where we can mountain bike and she can do 35-50 mile runs right out of camp without having to worry about running into drunk ******** out "wheeling."

So, I wheel alone, carry lots of tools, extra parts and have a decent knowledge of how to fix a lot of things and carry with me the understanding that there's probably going to come a time I have to hike out, buy a new part and hitch a ride back as far as I can go to self-rescue. So, having as much control is mandatory for me.

Again, I'm not trying to build a buggy. Just trying to get my TOYOTA FJ-C as offroad capable as possible so I feel like I have a bit of an insurance card when I go into the backcountry.

I know that there are a lot of guys on the forum here that will benefit from AllPro's SFA kit and wheel their rigs like they stole them. The SFA, for them, will let them advance that much further. It'll also hopefully keep them from having more breakdowns due to having to have a heavy foot to get up something.

Nothing but props to AllPro and they guys on that trip for doing the stuff you guys did. Great trip. Was just initially pointing out to the OP of this thread that the fact that most of the rigs made it on that run does NOT say that IFS makes your vehicle as capable as a SFA setup on the same type of trail. Not a chance.

 

[DrSolar]

Who said IFS = SFA. I believe many folks have said IFS can not follow an SFA rig, well here is evidence it can. It's not about wheel lifting off the ground its about the fact they made it out. Read my sig I owned 2 jeep I know the difference, but the whole IFS is useless should really be put to rest. If it is then how did a bunch of IFS rigs just finish Claw Hammer?

The hammers are some of the toughest trails out there. I am not trying to become the first FJ pro rock crawler I am a regular guy trying to wheel and apparently the FJ does just fine. That is my point. Unless we are talking ultra extreme rock climbing the IFS can't follow an SFA with comparable equipment is quickly becoming a moot point. I think most of us here don't do anything ultra extreme like climbing vertical rock faces or boulders that tower over our rig. Only FULL CUSTOM rigs with SFA do that not even a Rubicon is going to be seen running a pro-rock challenge.

So whoa there kemosabe. I think I just said that it put a DAMPER on teh argument correct? Sheeesh, touchy people.

 

[JDEMELLO]

My turn,

I have wheeled almost every trail that I have done with both a IFS and SACed Taco. It's not a matter of if you can do it but how easy it is. I have done Claw hammer with IFS it was fun, I have done much worse trails in AZ with IFS right along with a group of SASed trucks. I have even managed to not break a thing with IFS running 35's while others on the same trail broke parts left and right.
I really didn't start breaking parts till I did the swap but that was mostly axle shafts. I found my self taking harder and harder lines to the point where the body and vehicle size became the limiting factor. No different trails just took all the hard lines. I can't express how much more fun a well set up vehicle is on a trail. But at the same time I got way more satisfaction from using less and doing more with IFS. It made for a great challenge.

Build your vehicle the best you can and know it and its limits. You can have fun both ways just know your limits.

 

[Bert]

I am not sure that anyone can beat SFA for offroad, but can SFA beat IFS for both off-road and on-road performance? I don't know about y'all, but my rig has double-duty, and the SFA crowd doesn't seem to be interested in the asphalt. No hating, seriously, but if the taxes pay for highways, why not use 'em?

 

[Layonnn]

I am not sure that anyone can beat SFA for offroad, but can SFA beat IFS for both off-road and on-road performance? I don't know about y'all, but my rig has double-duty, and the SFA crowd doesn't seem to be interested in the asphalt. No hating, seriously, but if the taxes pay for highways, why not use 'em?

SFA is not better at all offroading than an IFS.

In the rocks and really off camber, yes, no questions. High speed runs out in the desert, i would rather have IFS.

 

[Briman42487]

Who said IFS = SFA. I believe many folks have said IFS can not follow an SFA rig, well here is evidence it can. It's not about wheel lifting off the ground its about the fact they made it out. Read my sig I owned 2 jeep I know the difference, but the whole IFS is useless should really be put to rest. If it is then how did a bunch of IFS rigs just finish Claw Hammer?

The hammers are some of the toughest trails out there. I am not trying to become the first FJ pro rock crawler I am a regular guy trying to wheel and apparently the FJ does just fine. That is my point. Unless we are talking ultra extreme rock climbing the IFS can't follow an SFA with comparable equipment is quickly becoming a moot point. I think most of us here don't do anything ultra extreme like climbing vertical rock faces or boulders that tower over our rig. Only FULL CUSTOM rigs with SFA do that not even a Rubicon is going to be seen running a pro-rock challenge.

So whoa there kemosabe. I think I just said that it put a DAMPER on teh argument correct? Sheeesh, touchy people.

if you want to build a rig to hit the rocks with, i for sure wouldnt choose a IFS such as the FJ. IFS has its place, and so does a SFA. yes, they overlap, but a IFS would get beat to death crawling anything of decent size, and the SFA would get beat to death in some baja applications that a IFS would excel in.

my goal would be to build the vehicle to overcome any obsticles you plan on running into in the areas you frequent. why would you torture yourself putting a IFS through the rubicon 15 times a year just because it can? i would go the safer route and build something that would tackle those obsticles with ease. i guess what i'm getting at is build the vehicle to what you wheel in. my FJ given the same ground clearance as my jeep would scare the **** out of me because it would be on 2-3 wheels anytime my SFA Jeep would be on all 4 walking over everything with ease. i wouldnt want to chance tipping it on every obsticle or breaking a CV every time i had to lead foot it just to get my limiting IFS over an obsticle.

i apologize for the rant. maybe i can choose my words a little better tomorrow and take a better stab at it when i am rested.

 

[Bert]

SFA is not better at all offroading than an IFS.

In the rocks and really off camber, yes, no questions. High speed runs out in the desert, i would rather have IFS.

Perhaps I was too conceding in this regard... My point was really that SFA has limited usage compared to IFS... But I could be wrong, it has happened once or twice before... :lol:

 

[BellyDoc]

Just remember that not all solid front axles are the same.

Anything less than 1 ton running gear swapped into an FJ Cruiser would be a step backward.

 

[Sean K.]

Just remember that not all solid front axles are the same.

Anything less than 1 ton running gear swapped into an FJ Cruiser would be a step backward.

I disagree....a standard D44 would be a decent strength upgrade to an FJC....With a careful driver, judicious use of the throttle and good lines, you could run 35-37s and only break an axle occassionally.

However, for the money, you aren't going to spend much more to put in a 1T front axle other than the initial purchase price and very slightly higher component prices.

Sean

 

[Sean K.]

Unless we are talking ultra extreme rock climbing the IFS can't follow an SFA with comparable equipment is quickly becoming a moot point. I think most of us here don't do anything ultra extreme like climbing vertical rock faces or boulders that tower over our rig. Only FULL CUSTOM rigs with SFA do that not even a Rubicon is going to be seen running a pro-rock challenge.

Yes, in comp you're not going to see anything but full custom....on many really hard trails you still see Toyota truggies, and highly modified Jeeps along side the tube frames. You DON'T have to have a full custom to do this type of wheeling (but it doesn't hurt either).

There are indeed trails that IFS cannot follow....but your point is reasonably well made....there aren't that many. Where the problem lies is trying to stuff an IFS rig down a tougher, normally SFA trail....it's really slow going, requires an enormous amount of spotting (and usually a lot of winching/strapping from the rest of the group when the guy with IFS decides to try something he really shouldn't have.....Doc will get my reference with a certain IFS guy we've wheeled with twice now ).

Sean

 

[BellyDoc]

I disagree....a standard D44 would be a decent strength upgrade to an FJC....With a careful driver, judicious use of the throttle and good lines, you could run 35-37s and only break an axle occassionally.

However, for the money, you aren't going to spend much more to put in a 1T front axle other than the initial purchase price and very slightly higher component prices.

Sean

I think it basically comes out as a wash. The ring gear on a D44 is 8.75 which is only 3/4" bigger, and the outer shafts are 1.25", which is only a few thou bigger than our CV axles.

All in all... not worth the conversion.

 

[Briman42487]

I think it basically comes out as a wash. The ring gear on a D44 is 8.75 which is only 3/4" bigger, and the outer shafts are 1.25", which is only a few thou bigger than our CV axles.

All in all... not worth the conversion.

if you are going through all the trouble of doing a SFA swap the right way, whats the few extra bucks to step it up? i understand that 85% of us wheelers are always on a tight budget. lord knows we cant have 4x4 shiz impede our beer budget. but really, this isnt like going out and buying a old beater SFA yota or a thrashed jeep to wheel hard. these are pretty darn expensive cars already in the world of normal wheelers, so why not save up a few more clams and do it right?

 

[tibaal89]

The only things that sucks more than IFS is TOYOTA.... :lol: