[Sean K.]

5500.. wow. a 5500lb fj would be easily out performed by a 4400lb fj with similar clearance, driving, and tires. Off road (in most situations) and on road. More likely to break suspension parts as well. like cv joints. I know other off road gurus around here think the FJ is overweight.
Heres an excerpt from a fine thread created by Sean K.

You can argue with him if you still don't think weight affects off road performance much.
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...35564-how-build-trail-rig-imo.html#post600585

Not sure about this one but, with an off road package or something you get longer shocks in the rear, and I believe that would allow one side of the axle to drop more. But an FJC with some sort of off road package should have been used for this comparison. They may have used an off road/tt/trd FJC but hey should have specified it. Inaccurate reporting.

Higher center of gravity means your more likely to roll over.

An FJ is not a 4runner. When I was doing research I came across many many people who had 285/75r16s and no rubbing. Some times there is a little rubbing on the part of the mud guard that covers the body mount. Thats easily remedied with a bit of trimming to the mud guard or taking it off. Someone also fit 255/85r16 bfg MTs, 33.3s, without rubbing.
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...55-85r16-s-mounted-trd-wheels.html#post153601

Ya I wasn't 100% serious about the H3 being an inferior piece of engineering. The FJC just has too many advantages over the H3.
Sadly many FJs and H3s are kept in captivity and forced to live a life of mall crawling, when the owner should have bought a van or station wagon or something.

How 100% positive are we that an H3 with the V8 is 5500 and the FJ is only 4400? I'm not...and I don't go off door jamb numbers either. The only way I've found accurate is to actually take the vehicle to a truck scale and weigh it.

My old Hilux Toyota was door jamb'd at 3600 lbs (IIRC) and it actually weighed about 4200.

Sean

 

[Woodsman]

They are all better than average off-road . . . but there is one thing that I've noticed. When a Hummer driver passes me going the opposite direction, they rarely fail to do the ol' rubber neck and try to get a good look as I pass by. I don't know if it is jealousy, admiration, or they just haven't seen a sweet lookin' Sandstorm FJ before. It amazes me that so few people know what an FJ is ?

My emblems are staying on just to help ensure that the Hummer-haters don't get my FJ mixed up.

 

[logan9967]

i've heard " that looks like a hummer " and " is that a new hummer " but by far what bothers me the most is.. " nice jeep " tsk tsk tsk not just the fact the it is definitely not a jeep. but also that the person doesn't notice the almost exact same styling of every single jeep thats out there. (i'm not a jeep hater btw)

 

[Sean K.]

Some issues the H3 has is that is uses torsion bars up front which are vastly less superior. I used to own an S-10 blazer with the exact same setup and it flexed very poorly. Torsion bars are very stiff and lack droop like coils, leaves and the FJ's struts (or coil-overs if modified).

Not to put too fine of a point on it but, if that's true....why does the H3 have more flex in terms of its RTI score???


Sean

 

[bandi]

Did the xhange the H3 so that the traction
control can be turned off whilein 4WD ?...

I know this was a complaint from the guys
I wheel with, it held them back as far as
placing the power where they needed it...

 

[carrotzilla]

I drove 6 different HMMWV with Coyotes back in January and was hoping the FJ rides a wee better. Looking to pick up a 6 speed in the next week or so.

 

[Sean K.]

Okay....just read the whole thread before responding this time :lol: Most of what I said was already covered.

Let me address a few misconceptions. H3s with the "adventure" package are every bit the OFFROAD equal of FJ Cruisers that have the rear locker and atrac....even with the 5 cyl. The 4:1 tcase more than makes up for the smaller engine offroad.

H3s with the new V8, front locker in a cast iron front diff, with 4:1 and a rear locker, will be able to go farther than the current FJC with rear locker and A-trac....It pains me to say this as a Toyota fan, but it's true based on the equipment they come with for 09 as an option.

Thai, just b/c one side droops X amount does NOT mean the other side must compress that same amount, JFYI. If the shock is the droop limiting factor, then yes, a longer one will allow more downtravel....however, shocks that have more downtravel also have longer bodies meaning that they will reach their compressed length SOONER, meaning you'll lose some uptravel on the compressing side as well....you're both right and wrong here. Suffice it to say Thai's right overall...the upgraded shock package does NOTHING to improve offroad performance in terms of articulation.....it only improves ride quality at higher prerunning type speed and reduces shock fade....nothing magical about that.


In the end, the newest H3 optioned all the way out with all the bells and whistles will be more capable than the current FJC offering. But that's why mods are available and I think longevity wise, the FJC is still a better buy for the long haul. It's easier to dump money into mods when that money isn't being spent on maintenance items like it probably would be on the GM product.

Sean

 

[fj6high]

Okay....just read the whole thread before responding this time :lol: Most of what I said was already covered.

Let me address a few misconceptions. H3s with the "adventure" package are every bit the OFFROAD equal of FJ Cruisers that have the rear locker and atrac....even with the 5 cyl. The 4:1 tcase more than makes up for the smaller engine offroad.

H3s with the new V8, front locker in a cast iron front diff, with 4:1 and a rear locker, will be able to go farther than the current FJC with rear locker and A-trac....It pains me to say this as a Toyota fan, but it's true based on the equipment they come with for 09 as an option.

Thai, just b/c one side droops X amount does NOT mean the other side must compress that same amount, JFYI. If the shock is the droop limiting factor, then yes, a longer one will allow more downtravel....however, shocks that have more downtravel also have longer bodies meaning that they will reach their compressed length SOONER, meaning you'll lose some uptravel on the compressing side as well....you're both right and wrong here. Suffice it to say Thai's right overall...the upgraded shock package does NOTHING to improve offroad performance in terms of articulation.....it only improves ride quality at higher prerunning type speed and reduces shock fade....nothing magical about that.


In the end, the newest H3 optioned all the way out with all the bells and whistles will be more capable than the current FJC offering. But that's why mods are available and I think longevity wise, the FJC is still a better buy for the long haul. It's easier to dump money into mods when that money isn't being spent on maintenance items like it probably would be on the GM product.

Sean

Good point on the Longevity point! Yes the H3 09 version is a capable rig but I can't see spending tons of money keeping it on the road!!! In the long run FJ is reasonable and can do and exceed what GM can do! If GM can or will compete I will Buy The Product!!! Show me the value and performance and I will Decide!!!! Hello Toyota!!!

 

[johnnewyork]

never but we know

 

[johnnewyork]

And so do they

 

[Thai]

Weak front diff has been beefed for 09 as well.....cast iron instead of aluminum.....though my guess is that with a healthy V8 and the added torque of 4:1 tcases, they'll but axles and CVs.

Sean

Sean, you're assuming that the new cast iron diff (which i did mention) in the Alpha is strong. From visiting H3 forums, there are already stories (few) of people blowing the Alpha front diff with routine off-roading. So, unless GM fixes/strengthens that diff even further, i doubt that the front locker will be practical for abuse.

 

[Dontfollowmeb]

i've heard " that looks like a hummer " and " is that a new hummer " but by far what bothers me the most is.. " nice jeep " tsk tsk tsk not just the fact the it is definitely not a jeep. but also that the person doesn't notice the almost exact same styling of every single jeep thats out there. (i'm not a jeep hater btw)

They are just blind,...to them everything is a Jeep if it has aggressive tires....Just print some copies of this, tell them to study the picture for a week and say JEEP 1000 times & you'll meet them back here in a week for a visual test.

 

[Thai]

Thai, just b/c one side droops X amount does NOT mean the other side must compress that same amount, JFYI. If the shock is the droop limiting factor, then yes, a longer one will allow more downtravel....however, shocks that have more downtravel also have longer bodies meaning that they will reach their compressed length SOONER, meaning you'll lose some uptravel on the compressing side as well....you're both right and wrong here. Suffice it to say Thai's right overall...the upgraded shock package does NOTHING to improve offroad performance in terms of articulation.....it only improves ride quality at higher prerunning type speed and reduces shock fade....nothing magical about that.

The 5500 lbs is what my G500 weighs. And, unlike what Stig stated earlier, i have no trouble keeping up with my brother's Jeep Rubicon (3700 lbs)...we both have full lockers front & rear. I have done everything a Rubicon has done in all the off-roading events. However, i have been to places where FJ (with mods), 4runners (with mods), and Xterras (with mods) could not...which again, kinda hit home the point about the usefulness of a front locker vs. open or ATRAC. BTW, these are listed weight by manufacturer. Sure, it could differ, but i am using manufacturer's weight ratings to compare which should be relative.

What you stated above may be true. You're assuming that the axle itself can move perpendicular to the vehicle. I am not too sure how flexible the axle control arms on the FJ are. You may be right that the whole axle can move up and down by a few inches. However, in most vehicles, the shock is NOT the limiting factor in drooping, esp. on a stock suspension. I think that having the shock as the limiting factor is a bad idea anyway on a lifted vehicle. Therefore, having a shock with more droop (off-road pkg bilsteins) is fairly useless IMO on a stock suspension IF you're looking for more suspension travel. I agree with you...you buy the off-road pkg bilsteins because of it's inherent monotube characteristics of heat dissipation and stiffer ride...that's it.

 

[Sean K.]

Sean, you're assuming that the new cast iron diff (which i did mention) in the Alpha is strong. From visiting H3 forums, there are already stories (few) of people blowing the Alpha front diff with routine off-roading. So, unless GM fixes/strengthens that diff even further, i doubt that the front locker will be practical for abuse.

No I'm not. I'm also a member. Might wanna go back and re-read. Also, if you'll notice I said that with the V8 AND front locker, they'll probably just break axles and CVs. However, that doesn't mean everyone will....some will know how to drive....and those are the people that will be able to push their H3 farther than someone that knows how to drive in an FJC.

Sean

 

[Sean K.]

The 5500 lbs is what my G500 weighs. And, unlike what Stig stated earlier, i have no trouble keeping up with my brother's Jeep Rubicon (3700 lbs)...we both have full lockers front & rear. I have done everything a Rubicon has done in all the off-roading events. However, i have been to places where FJ (with mods), 4runners (with mods), and Xterras (with mods) could not...which again, kinda hit home the point about the usefulness of a front locker vs. open or ATRAC. BTW, these are listed weight by manufacturer. Sure, it could differ, but i am using manufacturer's weight ratings to compare which should be relative.

What you stated above may be true. You're assuming that the axle itself can move perpendicular to the vehicle. I am not too sure how flexible the axle control arms on the FJ are. You may be right that the whole axle can move up and down by a few inches. However, in most vehicles, the shock is NOT the limiting factor in drooping, esp. on a stock suspension. I think that having the shock as the limiting factor is a bad idea anyway on a lifted vehicle. Therefore, having a shock with more droop (off-road pkg bilsteins) is fairly useless IMO on a stock suspension IF you're looking for more suspension travel. I agree with you...you buy the off-road pkg bilsteins because of it's inherent monotube characteristics of heat dissipation and stiffer ride...that's it.

First off, what's a G500? I have no idea.

Second, I can agree with you if the mfgs are giving you curb weights for both. A source would be nice....just to verify. Maybe if I have time I'll look up the specs for both and post 'em up here.

3rd, factory rear axle suspension usually IS limited by the rear shocks in both the mounting (they bind the shock eye on droop b/c the bolt isn't perpendicular to the axle tube) and in terms of droop.

Take the shocks off any stock leaf sprung truck and you'll find you can get several more inches of droop. Why? B/c the shocks are the only thing limiting droop.

As for the FJC, what is it that limits its droop? I don't see a limit strap and there obviously isn't an upper bump stop like on a-arm set ups. What is it that limits the downtravel? Again, I'm asking....I don't know for sure, but the geometry of the 4 link/panhard can't in itself.

And as for your opinion that having the shock be the downtravel limiter....why is it that most buggies do exactly this for articulation? If you have a center mounted limit strap, it controls high speed downtravel where damage might occur. At crawling speed, you don't need a downtravel limit at each corner b/c it's not moving fast enough to damage the shock.

Sean

 

[Dontfollowmeb]

First off, what's a G500? I have no idea.

Here is a G500...MB

 

[Thai]

3rd, factory rear axle suspension usually IS limited by the rear shocks in both the mounting (they bind the shock eye on droop b/c the bolt isn't perpendicular to the axle tube) and in terms of droop.

As for the FJC, what is it that limits its droop? I don't see a limit strap and there obviously isn't an upper bump stop like on a-arm set ups. What is it that limits the downtravel? Again, I'm asking....I don't know for sure, but the geometry of the 4 link/panhard can't in itself.

And as for your opinion that having the shock be the downtravel limiter....why is it that most buggies do exactly this for articulation? If you have a center mounted limit strap, it controls high speed downtravel where damage might occur. At crawling speed, you don't need a downtravel limit at each corner b/c it's not moving fast enough to damage the shock.

Sean

Sean, the FJ does not have a limiting strap...thus, there must be something else that limits the droop on fast washboards or on slow rock crawl other than the shock. There is a bumpstop just over the rear axle to limit compression...it is usually a rubber cone-shape thingy inside the coils controlling the rear axle...it is on all the coil axles i have seen.

 

[bandi]

^^^ Yes, the FJ's rear bump stop is inside the
rear coil... The droop is limited by the shock...

For example, when adding my new springs, I put
the frame on jack stands and let the axle drop
all the way down... Springs won't slip out, but I
remove the shock, the axle drops more, and I can
pull it out...

now putting the new one in, there was a little
resistance, I believe was from the panard? and
the links, and possible the brake lines too... ...

Once I added the new shocks (AP WE) on, they
again were the limiting factor...

 

[The Stig]

So the Bilstein shocks are the same length as the stock toyota shocks?

 

[Sean K.]

^^^ Yes, the FJ's rear bump stop is inside the
rear coil... The droop is limited by the shock...

For example, when adding my new springs, I put
the frame on jack stands and let the axle drop
all the way down... Springs won't slip out, but I
remove the shock, the axle drops more, and I can
pull it out...

now putting the new one in, there was a little
resistance, I believe was from the panard? and
the links, and possible the brake lines too... ...

Once I added the new shocks (AP WE) on, they
again were the limiting factor...

Exactly my point......if the FJC doesn't have a limit strap, the only thing that could limit it would be the shock OR....(and it would be really odd) a "captured" coil spring.

Trust me Thai, the shock is the limiter for droop on most solid axle'd rigs.

Sean