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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for 6.5" component in a JL preferably, but can't find one. Anyone running JL speakers that they would recommend?

Anyone running the PolkDXi6500, thoughts?

With any of the component set ups, will the Tacotunes door/pillar mounts work on these?

I want to stay away from 6X9.
 

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Looking for 6.5" component in a JL preferably, but can't find one. Anyone running JL speakers that they would recommend?

Anyone running the PolkDXi6500, thoughts?

With any of the component set ups, will the Tacotunes door/pillar mounts work on these?

I want to stay away from 6X9.
I'm just curious, why stay away from 6x9's? From the standpoint of physics, they have some unique benefits. KEF, a high end manufacturer of home audio speakers, has been using 6x9 drivers in some of their high end speakers for many years because of their unique benefits.

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/kef/floorstanding-speakers/q65/PRD_120971_1594crx.aspx

-FJ Florida-
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I see your point, IMO there are more options with 6.5 and I like the improved clarity in 6.5 over 6X9. It's a personal preference..

What's your opinion on a 6X9?
 

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I see your point, IMO there are more options with 6.5 and I like the improved clarity in 6.5 over 6X9. It's a personal preference..

What's your opinion on a 6X9?
I would debate the clarity issue, and here is why. I like 6x9's because of the physics involved. The oval shape prevents a variety of unwanted resonances because it is a different size across the cone at each measuring point. A circular speaker is the same diameter everywhere, and much like a bell ringing at a particular tone, unwanted resonances can, and do, develop in round drivers that the 6x9 helps minimize due to its shape. The 6x9 also has a larger surface area: 43 sq inches in true a 6x9" vs. 33 sq inches in a true 6.5" driver. Most, but not all, 6x9's will be capable of a higher SPL at a given power input due to their tendency to be more efficient than a 6.5. Even if you do not want it loud, you benefit at lower volumes by having less speaker distortion (speakers are the most distortion-producing portion of any audio system). The 6x9 also has frequency dispersion characteristics that can be beneficial compared to a round speaker. These reasons are some of the many why you see a high end audio manufacturer like KEF working with a 6x9 in a floorstanding home audio speaker.

For these reasons, I opted for 6x9's in the doors of my new 2011, using matching 3.5" coaxials in the dash to create a quasi-three way system. The build is here:

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/stereo-electronics-electrical/122575-2011-audio-mod.html

You don't have to spend a fortune either, as my simple system illustrates. I had to do a little engineering, but it was worth it. Yes, one day I will rip out the Toyota head end unit and replace it with a good aftermarket unit and an amplifer, but for now, it sounds very good. I have been involved in high end audio for about 25 years now, up to the insanity of a $4,000 50 watt per channel Threshhold pure class A stereo amplifier (yes, I did say $4,000 for 50 watts per channel for two channels) I owned in my younger days when I thought the price seemed reasonable, LOL. Not any more. :lol: Now I have more responsibilities, like I dunno ... FJ truck payments!

My ONLY complaint with my FJ system right now is that it is not very loud with the limited power of the Toyota in dash unit, but what is there is good. It even images well, placing a floating image almost in the center where it belongs. I have already considered converting one of the center console cup holders to a center channel speaker, but I don't think I will.

-FJ Florida-
 

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I listened to JL 6.5 components today...list price was $499. Then listened to the BA SR60's @$299 and like them a lot better. Having said that, nobody should tell you what is the best sounding speaker. You can read review after review but if you don't like bright or if you like more mid or like more low end, you'll only take from the review what you want to hear and despise what you read that you're sure you don't like.

I've said it before in another post, I had $1000 Focal components in my Tacoma and I'll never buy them again. It's what YOU like, not what anyone else here likes.

As for the 6x9 argument, I could argue both sides. I've heard some great 6x9s but a lot of that had to do with placement and the clean power that was going to them. Any speaker will sound like **** if you have poor power. Buy a decent amp and go listen to some speakers...buy what you like that's in your budget and don't listen to anything outside of what you can spend. That will make it easier.
 

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It's what YOU like, not what anyone else here likes.
I got over "liking" particular sounds many, many years ago as I listened to hundreds of LP's and CD's on millions of dollars of top end equipment and comparing that to live performances. Ultimately, your ear becomes trained to spot what is in common with them all, and that is what is actually in the recording, not modified or colored or altered compared to what actually is in the recording. I like reality. I like what is accurate. I like to hear what actually was recorded on the CD. Other people "like" screaming tweeters and bass that you can hear from a mile away as the car rattles all over. No thanks. I am listening to some music on my studio monitors right now.

Just give me what is on the CD. The setup I have installed does that pretty well. The 6x9's in the doors were an important contribution to that fact. There isn't a pair of component 6 1/2's out there that could do what the 6x9's do combined with the crossed over, timbre matched, and properly attenuated 3 1/2 coaxials in the dash - period. I've owned soooooo many 6 1/2's over the years.

As for the 6x9 argument, I could argue both sides.
So, what is the other side? I am talking about the physics of the 6x9, its benefits in general, and specifically 6x9's in the doors of the FJ.

Buy a decent amp and go listen to some speakers...buy what you like
Ultimately, there are other issues that need to be addressed, like physics for example. I mentioned proper crossovers, attenuation, resonances, dispersion, and timbre matching already. Unfortunately, there are multiple other issues that you cannot address listening to speakers in a showroom such as the overall reflectivity/absoption of the interior, the volume of the air space in the interior, whether any damping (sound absorbing) material is used around or behind the speakers, road noise, engine noise (always listen with the engine running because that's the way it's going to be most of the time), and so on. Fortunately, I was able to engineer my own system. It took me several attempts to get it right, but persistence pays off. So, the BEST bet (unless you want to engineer your own system like I did) is to go to a very good car audio shop and ask to hear some of their actual high end installations, not show room demos. They have trained ears, and they know what will work best in your FJ.

-FJ Florida-
 

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The KEF example is a bit extreme and they really don't make car speakers anymore, at least to my knowledge. Personally, I would never install 2 or 3 way 6x9's in the door and most sound like crap. But everyone has a budget, and opinion of course. :)

I sold/installed in a fairly high end shop, and competed (back in the day, admittedly) in the IASCA pro class. I had a blast and worked with alot of the industry people. The KISS rule still applies IMO, it's all about execution and driver placement.

OP, I have always liked Polk speakers. Also check out Infinity Perfect, they are in the same price range. Let us know what you buy.
 

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I got over "liking" particular sounds many, many years ago as I listened to hundreds of LP's and CD's on millions of dollars of top end equipment and comparing that to live performances. Ultimately, your ear becomes trained to spot what is in common with them all, and that is what is actually in the recording, not modified or colored or altered compared to what actually is in the recording. I like reality. I like what is accurate. I like to hear what actually was recorded on the CD. Other people "like" screaming tweeters and bass that you can hear from a mile away as the car rattles all over. No thanks. I am listening to some music on my studio monitors right now.

Just give me what is on the CD. The setup I have installed does that pretty well. The 6x9's in the doors were an important contribution to that fact. There isn't a pair of component 6 1/2's out there that could do what the 6x9's do combined with the crossed over, timbre matched, and properly attenuated 3 1/2 coaxials in the dash - period. I've owned soooooo many 6 1/2's over the years.



So, what is the other side? I am talking about the physics of the 6x9, its benefits in general, and specifically 6x9's in the doors of the FJ.



Ultimately, there are other issues that need to be addressed, like physics for example. I mentioned proper crossovers, attenuation, resonances, dispersion, and timbre matching already. Unfortunately, there are multiple other issues that you cannot address listening to speakers in a showroom such as the overall reflectivity/absoption of the interior, the volume of the air space in the interior, whether any damping (sound absorbing) material is used around or behind the speakers, road noise, engine noise (always listen with the engine running because that's the way it's going to be most of the time), and so on. Fortunately, I was able to engineer my own system. It took me several attempts to get it right, but persistence pays off. So, the BEST bet (unless you want to engineer your own system like I did) is to go to a very good car audio shop and ask to hear some of their actual high end installations, not show room demos. They have trained ears, and they know what will work best in your FJ.

-FJ Florida-
For me, your post is a bit frustrating. You're apparently a very accomplished listener of music and have squandered copious amounts of money owning soooooo many sets of 6 and 1/2s, only to land with 6x9s. Makes me wonder where the "science" was during that time in your life.

Science, however, makes you no more of an expert on what I like to hear coming out of my speakers than you have ever been or will be. Science can't disprove that fact. Your argument, although potentially scientifically sound (and I can't corroborate that because I'm not a scientist), isn't logical. You just said that it's science but at the end tell the OP to go to a very good shop and rely on someone else's trained ears. Not sure how that jives with anything you've stated regarding what you hear when a track is played. Why would I have you or anyone else tell me what to put in my car or home? Not sure I get that.

I too own expensive home audio equipment and understand what you mean about realistic sound, etc. You can toss out terminology that will appear to make your opinion more relevant, educated and sincere, but the simple fact is it boils down to what people like to hear individually. Any good shop with qualified technicians will tell you that. From what I read from your posts, you like to be right and are very technical in nature...and I'm ok with that.

But the last time I listened to a set of JBL Project Everest 66000's, through more than $100k in equipment, there wasn't a set of 6x9s anywhere in the room...and those JBl go for about $60k a pair. But I'm sure you knew that, right?

My entire point to the OP was that he/she should explore the options and listen to what they like. Not everyone has caviar taste in sound and wants to understand the scientific side of car audio. They just want to listen to music, not to be told how 6x9s move air.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
All good information, lets try to stay on the topic. Any thoughts on 6.5 6X9 recommendations? Fj Florida, not bashing, but not a fan of the Fosgate.. But for the price as you mentioned you can't beat them.. I also saw your write up on the install of them, nice job. Where did you purchase your speakers from?

Also, did you use existing factory speaker adapter for the doors?

Thanks
 

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I would also stay away from 6x9s given the choice. As a general rule, component speakers will give a better midrange than a coaxial. I haven't owned a set of Polk car speakers in a few years, but they were awesome when I did. I have all Polk speakers in my home theater. To properly drive a quality set of speakers you'll need more power than the FJammer puts out. A small amp would be a good investment.
 

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Re: JL Audio/Polk 6.5" Recommendations

I love JL audio and use nothing but JL audio in everything I own (Z series 6.5 component is the best). Look on ebay you can get them for about 1/2 off but still about $400 a pair. The JL audio HD amps are small and powerful. The 900x5 is a great unit.
I have one in my jeep their 100x4 500x1 RMS. I have a 750x1 and 600x4 jl audio hd going in the FJ its going to screeeeeeeeeemmmmmm!!!!

 

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All good information, lets try to stay on the topic. Any thoughts on 6.5 6X9 recommendations? Fj Florida, not bashing, but not a fan of the Fosgate.. But for the price as you mentioned you can't beat them.. I also saw your write up on the install of them, nice job. Where did you purchase your speakers from?

Also, did you use existing factory speaker adapter for the doors?

Thanks
The Polk Audio db691 looks nice. I have owned several sets of Polk Audio speakers. Some of them have been a bit bright, and this pair may be as well because it is a "three way" with a tweeter and supertweeter. I like the mineral (mica)/poly cones a lot. I also like the 93db sensitivity. You might also consider the JL Audio C2-690tx. It's closer to a true three way than the Polk db691.

For 6 1/2" separates you might look at the Polk Audio db6501. Again, I like the mineral (mica)/poly cones a lot. You might also look at the JL Audio TR650-CSi.

I did use the factory speakers to manufacture mounting brackets for the new speakers. I saw some adapters that looked like they would work perfectly on ebay after I did mine. I think they were listed for the Tundra, but they looked identical to the factory speakers from the FJ, minus the cones of course.

Don't overlook the option of cutting the tweeter on a 6x9 coaxial to turn it into a mid/bass driver. The treble down on the floor was OK while I had the tweeters running on the 6x9's along with the 3-1/2 coaxials in the dash, but I like the system better as modified in the update I posted, with the wires to the tweeters on the 6x9's cut.

I do recommend staying with the same brand and the same series for all of your speakers, whatever route you choose. Usually speakers from the same manufacturer in the same series will be fairly well timbre matched.

Also keep in mind that the dash speakers and the door speakers are wired in parallel. So, if you get 4 ohm speakers for the dash and also 4 ohm speakers for the doors, you just hit 2 ohms, which is too low for the factory head end unit.

I have been dealing with Amazon, Sonic Electronix, Parts Express, and Crutchfield. All have been good.

Hope this helps. :rocker:

-FJ Florida-
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Also keep in mind that the dash speakers and the door speakers are wired in parallel. So, if you get 4 ohm speakers for the dash and also 4 ohm speakers for the doors, you just hit 2 ohms, which is too low for the factory head end unit.

I have been dealing with Amazon, Sonic Electronix, Parts Express, and Crutchfield. All have been good.

Hope this helps. :rocker:

-FJ Florida-
What's the way around the 4 ohm issue? Run an amp and split it off directly that way and bypass the head unit? I eventually am going to get speakers for the rear pillar, but as you mentioned it's a bit of a headache.
 

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For me, your post is a bit frustrating. You're apparently a very accomplished listener of music and have squandered copious amounts of money owning soooooo many sets of 6 and 1/2s, only to land with 6x9s.

Sorry about the frustration, and yes I did squander way too much money on MB Quart, Boston Acoustics, and other 6 1/2 separates over the years when I was learning ... which is why I did not use them this time. I engineered a quasi-three way system using a 6x9 as the mid-bass driver instead of yet another 6 1/2.

You just said that it's science but at the end tell the OP to go to a very good shop and rely on someone else's trained ears. Not sure how that jives with anything you've stated regarding what you hear when a track is played. Why would I have you or anyone else tell me what to put in my car or home? Not sure I get that.

My point was that audio systems, especially in cars and trucks, need to be engineered for the application. That application might be a movie theater, a PA system, a living room stereo system, a home theater, or an FJ Cruiser. For people who feel comfortable with the science and the physics and a little research, you can do the engineering yourself, like I did. If not, a good high end shop can use their experience and trained ears to engineer a custom solution for you.

But the last time I listened to a set of JBL Project Everest 66000's, through more than $100k in equipment, there wasn't a set of 6x9s anywhere in the room...and those JBl go for about $60k a pair. But I'm sure you knew that, right?
That wasn't my point. My point is that the 6x9 has unique advantages in the realm of physics that round speakers (specifically 6.5's) just don't have - unique enough for a high end manufacturer like KEF to use them. There is no reason to rule them out completely, especially in the doors of the FJ.

-FJ Florida-
 

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What's the way around the 4 ohm issue? Run an amp and split it off directly that way and bypass the head unit? I eventually am going to get speakers for the rear pillar, but as you mentioned it's a bit of a headache.
I got around it in a very unique way. I cut the tweeters to the door 6x9's leaving 8 ohms there instead of 4. Then I wired resistors in line with the dashboard speakers to lower their volume and raise their impedence. After all is said and done, I have somewhere around 3.4 ohms, which is as low as I dared to go with the stock head end unit.

The only real solution other than a custom one like mine is to use an amplifier that can drive 2 ohm loads (or lower) with no problem. If you are installing an amplifier, you also have the option of tapping into the factory wiring to run the doors on two amplifier channels and the dash on two more channels, or you could pull new wires from the amp to the dash and into the doors (UGH) to put in better wiring. It's a pain in the neck, but you only do it once.

-FJ Florida-
 

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What's the way around the 4 ohm issue? Run an amp and split it off directly that way and bypass the head unit? I eventually am going to get speakers for the rear pillar, but as you mentioned it's a bit of a headache.
Most sets of component speakers that include crossovers as part of the kit will be 4 ohms. This would be a fairly simple procedure, put the midrange (6 1/2" or whatever size you choose) in the door and the tweeter in the dash. I don't know how the speakers are wired, but you could put the crossovers in the kickpanels or under the dash on each side and tap into the factory wiring there. Anyone know the color codes and locations for the factory speaker wires?
 

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As for the rear speakers you could do the same thing, run component there as well. You could also only use one set (if you have 8 speakers) and use co-axs.
 
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