[Dardwizzle]

Hi Guys,

So I have to take my 2014 FJ Cruiser to the Doctor this morning. I was hoping that you guys may have some experience with the problem I am having and have some suggestions or just want to discuss it.

I am curious if I should have any expectations while at the dealer this morning.

So the FJ has only a little over 3K miles on it. The problem is that if I am driving down the road, or I am at a stop and I (for what ever reason I may have at the moment) have to stomp the gas, pushing the RPM's to about 5500 or so, the FJ turns of the ATRAC, the ATRAC and Check Engine lights come on, and I know longer have any power to the wheeels more or less. I hit the gas, RPM's will shoot up but I get no where in a hurry.

My only work a rounds to this are to reset the computer by disconnecting the battery long enough for the computer to reset , which I have done when I am out driving and I need to actually get somewhere. Let the FJ sit in my driveway for about 24-48 hours (not sure yet how long this really takes, however, letting it set for a day or so seems to allow the computer or what ever controls this reset over this idle time so that next time I start the FJ the problem is clear. Lastly, I can take her to the dealership and see what they say, which is exactly what I am doing today.

Now last time I spoke to the dealership, they explained to me that there is some safety feature that does just this behaviour so that you don't risk losing control of the vehicle or damage the motor / trans by red lining it. The problem with this is that I don't have to red line it for more then a second before this kicks in and I have no power. What's worse, is that I never actualy have to "Red Line" it. This will occur from simply just hitting a high RPM which I was saying before at about 5500 which is still under the red RPM's according to my Tach.

There is no amount of botton pushing, monkeying between in gear, neutral, and / or park that will make this go away. Once the Check Engine and the ATRAC lights come on, they stay on and I have no power to the wheels accept for a small amount which will allow me to slowly creep to 20-30 mph, and seriously pray for a down hill run to help me hit the speed limit. It actually becomes very dangerous as the FJ (once in this state) can not get out of it's own way.

I was curious. It is obvious to me that this is set off by some configurable set of values. Now, just after I purchased the FJ, I swapped out the air intake with a K&N Air Intake and the exhaust with a MagnaFlow Exhaust. Could it be possible that these thresholds are being hit because I have added the additional horsepower? I mean it's not like I added a ton of extra HP, but could it be just enough that it's triggering this safety feature too early?

I also kind of question this being a safety feature. I mean I suppose it's a safety feature for the vehicle but certainly not for me, because if I needed power for some reason say to get out of the way of another vehicle or something, it's just not there. No amount of gas will get her to move.

So has any one run into this problem? Run into it almost as chronic of a problem as me? It seems to happen just about every time I have to hit the gas hard.

Like I mentioned, I have to take it to the dealership this morning for it's regular main't as well they want to take a look at this issue since it just happened to me again yesterday and all I did was hit the gas at a light and *POOF* on comes the lights and bye bye goes my power

So, has any one encountered this anywhere near with the frustration that I have? Or perhaps encountered it maybe in a normal way, the way it should be happening?

Any thought's or suggestions on this? Oh and no, being gentle on the throttle is not my way. After all, it's a pretty powerful SUV with a performance intake and exhaust. I should be able to stomp the gas from a stand still with out it complaining. :mecry:

Can't wait to hear any stories you may have on this!

Cheers,

Dardwizzle

 

[algonaman]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

1st) clean the MAF sensor, it doesn't like sticky K&N filter oil, at all, and almost always will cause anamolies. 2nd) what did the dealer say when you took it to them? Did they hook up to the OBD port and pull any data?

 

[Soup]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

1st) clean the MAF sensor, it doesn't like sticky K&N filter oil, at all, and almost always will cause anamolies. 2nd) what did the dealer say when you took it to them? Did they hook up to the OBD port and pull any data?

^^^^Good advice here. it appears that it's intake or exhaust related based on your description. That said, I never felt the need 'redline' a 4k pound SUV. The FJ is not a sports car. :wink

 

[Dardwizzle]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

Hey algonaman..... First, a modern car guy I am not. This means I have no clue (yet but I will research and figure this part out) what an MAF sensor is and where it is, but I will, no worries! My guess is that this is some sort of "Air Flow" sensor which would make sense based on your instructions.

Second, It's still at the dealer, but thus far, I am not liking what they told me today which just frustrates me. When I called to get an update on it, they said, it seemed to have been in "Limp" mode which we had to reset the computer in order to clear this, but doing this clears all the error codes and what not that would have helped us to isolate the problem. Thus they will check it on a cold start in the morning and see if the problem still exists.

(Ok frustrated! Yes, I know it was "Limping" lol That's why I brought it to you! I also told you that if you disconnect the battery, you can reset the computer and the problem will clear but so will all the data you need to troubleshoot this..... Followed by the technician halting me mid statement, "Please never disconnect the battery because this will reset the computer causing us to lose all the information as to why this may be happening and may just be covering up the problem!!"....

Um does anyone else see the problem here? The technician barring me from disconnecting the battery, resets the computer anyway, losing all diagnostic information that would help him figure out WHY this is happening in the first place, and now wants to see if the problem will happen from a cold start?!?! No this will not cause this to happen unless he jumps heavy on the throttle the right way!

He then tells me that if he can't cause the problem to be reproduced, then he will hand me the keys and tell me to come back when the problem occurs again....

The guys is so hi strung too that it's practically impossible to get a word in edgewise with him about this and how he has it all wrong lol.

I dunno, I am just going to have to wait until tomorrow morning when I pick it up to know exactly where we are and what I need to do and how much of a nightmare this guys got me in lol.

 

[Dardwizzle]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

^^^^Good advice here. it appears that it's intake or exhaust related based on your description. That said, I never felt the need 'redline' a 4k pound SUV. The FJ is not a sports car. :wink

I know, I know, believe it or not, it's not very hard to red line that thing. Perhaps I have a very heavy foot, but when I hit the gas it just goooooooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss lol I don't know how normal that is as I have never even sat in an FJ before I bought one. I just fell in love with her from the first time I actually saw one on the road.

>

 

[jimmy-buffett]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

When the car goes into limp mode, it logs a message in the car's computer explaining why it has done so. This message logging is commonly referred to as "throwing a code", the codes are stored in the car's computer and can be pulled by anyone with the right equipment to do it -- your dealership, AutoZone etc.

When you find out what message it's sending, you will know how to fix the problem.

To the extent that the new intake could be the problem, it's likely related to the air flow sensor (MAF - Mass Airflow Sensor) being dirty. The K&N filters tend to have a lot of oil in them and can muck up a new air sensor. If this is the problem, you're going to end up eating the cost of a new MAF as adding the K&N filter was something you did.

To the extent that the new exhaust could be the problem, it's likely related to any sensors that were removed / re-attached. It could be that one of them was damaged during installation, or that a wiring harness was not put back on correctly and has been damaged when the exhaust heats up. If this is the problem, you're going to end up eating the cost of a new sensors as upgrading the exhaust was something you did.

It might be neither of these things.

Find out what code the car is throwing when it goes into limp mode, and you'll know where the problem is.

 

[Dardwizzle]

I definitely want to find out what the code is as you stated. That was my intent by bringing it to Toyota in the first place. But what pisses me off is the technician cleared the codes that he told me not to clear by disconnecting the battery. Now he tells me he has to try to reproduce it during a cold start in the AM.

This of course won't happen unless he jams on the throttle. If he doesn't reproduce it, I will take him for my test drive and reproduce it for him.

I do realize now after reading what your guys are saying that the intake and exhaust could be causing the problem since they are aftermarket changes that I had put in. Not sure if this helps or not however, I do have the full extended 8 year warranty on the vehicle. Doubt that will help however before I made those changes I specifically called and spoke to the service manager at the dealership where I bought it and I asked him if making the changes (swapping the intake and exhaust) would in anyway void any of the warranty or cause any issues that would cause me yo pay out of pocket for any possible issues arising from those upgrades and I was assured that these changes are considered OEM changes and would not void the warranty nor affect any of the fully covered scheduled maintenance of or the vehicle.

Shoukd those changes cost me as you guys are suggesting, I guess so be it. It's a good thing I'm taking donations for my ever increasing medical bills because Disability is barely covering them this year.

I'll just do what I have to do, ya know?

Well at this point I will just await their call this morning to see where things are at. Should he not have the codes, I will goto Auto Zone, borrow a, Code Reader computer and go reproduce the problem and figure out what needs to be done then go back to Toyota with my new found knowledge!

Thanks for your help guys, wish me luck. I'm going to tackle this and figure out the problem and resolution.

Cheers Guys!

Dardwizzle

 

[L68SWEET]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

I seem to recall that someone else posted this exact same problem a couple of months ago. I believe that they had also changed to the K&N Air Intake and that was somehow causing the problem.

Unfortunately, I do not remember the specifics, nor can I link you to their post.

 

[us024077]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

I seem to recall that someone else posted this exact same problem a couple of months ago. I believe that they had also changed to the K&N Air Intake and that was somehow causing the problem.

Unfortunately, I do not remember the specifics, nor can I link you to their post.

^^^^ x2

Replace the original filter after cleaning the MAF (mass air flow) sensor. Bet the problem goes away.

 

[Dardwizzle]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

I find it hard to believe that I should have to replace the original intake (if I understood what the previous poster was saying). I have read here that many people have a K&N intake and have not heard of this problem.

Right now, It's still at the dealership. Since they reset the computer, I had to go down there and reproduce the problem for them. They have no made any mention to there being any issue with the Intake, but I am not taking that off the table as to it possibly causing the problem. Either way, they said that they would need the vehicle for another few days now that they saw how easy it was to reproduce.

I guess we will have to see what they come up with.

 

[Winterpeg]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

FYI... the FJ does have a rev-limiter.... I know because I've bounced off it numerous times wheeling in the snow :rocker: doing donuts and such.

Good luck with your issues.

As stated previously, I would take a look at that K&N... fouled up MAF sensors have caused issues before. A K&N filter that is oiled too much fouls them up. Many here who have used them have returned to a dry filter for just that reason.

The MAF sensor is easily found... I'll do some digging for some pictures but you could also do a quick search on here and likely find instructions.
Just make sure to really hose it down with the MAF cleaner and remember the sensor isn't the matchstick looking thingy... it's way up in the plastic tube.

:cheers:

 

[Winterpeg]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

Here is a picture of it removed....
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/maintenance-tech/71441-maf-sensor-cleaning.html#post1157868

Ahhhh... LGRT guys are awesome... here's a youtube video of it.

 

[Dardwizzle]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

FYI... the FJ does have a rev-limiter.... I know because I've bounced off it numerous times wheeling in the snow :rocker: doing donuts and such.

Good luck with your issues.

As stated previously, I would take a look at that K&N... fouled up MAF sensors have caused issues before. A K&N filter that is oiled too much fouls them up. Many here who have used them have returned to a dry filter for just that reason.

The MAF sensor is easily found... I'll do some digging for some pictures but you could also do a quick search on here and likely find instructions.
Just make sure to really hose it down with the MAF cleaner and remember the sensor isn't the matchstick looking thingy... it's way up in the plastic tube.

:cheers:

Thanks winterpeg. I have full plans on Googling the MAF thing as soon as I get a chance. Right now I have to go and install a powerline WIFI extender for my niece, so I can't do it now. I just wanted to get my point across as I did in my last post.

The other thing too is that since the vehicle is over at the dealership (since I have 8 years of warranty and maintenance on the vehicle) I wanted to see what they claim the problem to me. One of the techs made mention to me that there could be a timing issue for when this "limp mode" kicks in. He said he wasn't sure but perhaps this safety feature was kicking in to fast or at the wrong RPM, and that could possibly solve the issue. Again, I do not know much about this system but, he's the tech, so I figured I would just let him do his thing and see where we go from there.

Also I just wanted to reiterate a side note. Before I had the work done and bought the intake and the exhaust, I called Toyota (because I have the extended warranty and the extended maintenance plan) on the FJ (gives me 8 years service free) and I asked if there was any problem having both of these installed, did they know of any problems, and more importantly would it void any warranty or cause any problems with the maintenance plan. The service manager told me no and even said that these "upgraded" according to them they are covered under the OEM coverage, which he explained to me, that while the parts would not be covered under warranty if the intake or exhaust broke, they do not void any warranty if something in the vehicle doesn't work because they are installed. He went on to say that the same went for the exhaust providing I installed a catback exhaust and not a full system. So as of right now they are telling me that is there is a problem with the MAF due to the K&N, if they can fix it, it's covered but at this point they are not confident that the MAF is even the problem. Again, all of that is based on the conversation with the service manager yesterday.

 

[Winterpeg]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

It takes all of 5 minutes, a Phillips screwdriver, and a can of MAF sensor cleaner.
Watch the youtube video by LGRT.

I don't exactly trust dealerships to know their sht.... (based on my experience, not trying to bash ones that actually try).

:cheers:

 

[51062]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

Let me asking Mr KingTitan, who apparently is the leading expert on driving here in this thread, have you NEVER in any car caused, be it intentionally, or because you had to merge on to a very crowded fast moving highway, caused your RPM's to go into the red? Let's assume that you have, since at one point or another it's bound to happen at least once, so assuming it did happen, did your vehicle go into something like a "limp" mode? No? Of course not, because it's dangerous to be in a vehicle that cuts your power to your drive train!. (Assuming that you have never put your RPM's into the red, it's time to get out of your diaper and actually drive a vehicle on a real road way in real conditions).





Dar

maybe we just aren`t understanding your description of "red Lining".
and to answer you question, I`ll play along.
I have well over a million miles under my belt driving various vehicles, which is no concern to prove a point, and I`ve had many many fast, quick cars, trucks and vans. even bikes and ski`s and boats too!:rofl:

I pride myself on paying strict attention to the vehicle operation conditions at all times. why, bc I`m a gear head through and through. I have never intentionally ran up to the rev limiter or "red line" as you so call it, period.
I know the limits of all my vehicles and vessels. My personal fast cars are built to handle the stress of high rpm`s, and a big block in street trim sounds awesome at 6400 rpm. I`ve floated valves before, but I see no need to teach you that term.

I`m just saying it like it is. sure can the 4.0 take it, I`m sure it is well built and can sustain high rpms. but keep doing it will result in issues down the road or immediate failure of an important component. stretching the timing chains, wearing the guides, unecc wear and tear to the rest of the reciprocating assembly, do you need an explanation of that to?

I trust my automatic transmission to function correctly and shift according to load and line pressure and what the ECU tells it to do. when I had several manual transmission and it was up to me, there was no need to rev to the moon, the vehicle made excellent power to merge onto any highway usually resulting in speed faster than the traffic in the next lane, but again, no need to kill the car, that`s what the gear ratios from 1st through 6th gear are for.

and in my DSG paddle shift cars, the ecu will not let the engine over rev and shift to the next gear.

there are speed limiters, and rev limiters in almost all vehicles to prevent damage, but continuous abuse will cause issues.

I know when we diagnose any vehicle through the scan tool and I see the duty cycle or % of WOT, I know the driver runs the vehicle hard, and there are several factors in determining this.

my apologies if I misunderstood your issue. If the vehicle is that unsafe, then you know not to drive it and you already have taken it to the dealer. as a few suggested, a wet gauze air filter will contaminate the MAF. a good dry filter media will perform just as good if not better, and the FJ already has a cold air intake that is very good and can support the needed cfm to make it operate to it`s full potential.

the only example I can give is from a crown vic cvpi, if you mashed the gas "to hard" the traction control kicks in and applies the brakes to prevent wheel spin. It was easy to learn not to do this, or open the glove box door and shut the traction control off in the Vics case.

Contact FJTest here on the forum, he can most likely tell you what and why you are experiencing this at those rpms.


good day sir.

 

[51062]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

Hopefully that's what happened... Anyways, I just wanted to ask if boats really count? Lol
I ride mountain, road, track, and cyclocross bikes. Also, I have a lot of km on a John Deer lawn mower... Haha, I'll be sure to count those from now on.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

no not really, just to show in respect to the variant of machines. everything has it`s limits, and when those limits are breached, shyt breaks, and then costs a ton of money...
MY JD has a governor, my Husqvarn has a governor, the boat has a rev limiter for each engine.

no disrespect, and I was 18 once about a 1000 years ago, :lol:

but, I didn`t have money to replace broken parts, bald tires etc etc... I was taught at an early age to respect what I have. and I`ve been driving since I was 15 in a field car, then a 4spd pinto :rofl: yeah I admit, a pinto!
so alot of my rides were overbuilt in terms of the threshold I wanted and where I wanted it to perform. we did try to kill a 250 six cylinder chevy with a brick on the pedal, that`s over revving for sure and we could not get it to pop!:lol:

my bud put a 302 into his pinto and it was out of control at the track...
another GF`s brother had a grabber 302 Maverick, that my Merc would destroy and he was pissed. but we had select areas to race...

carry on.

sounds like the brakes are being applied or the fuel is being cut out with DW`s case from that second of over rev. the ecu is very quick to act when it feels the slightest wheel spin.

in my MK5 VW, it was awesome, you learned the throttle limit, and when you pressed down the gas, the car just hooked up and went, no wheel spin at all! just took off. I was acused of wheel spin at a traffic light and proved the vehicle. would not light them up... end game!:lol:

 

[Dardwizzle]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

Well that certainly is a better explanation, however, please don't insult my intelligence with your snide little comments such as, "do you need an explanation of that to?" or assuming that I do not know anything about vehicles and engines. I have rebuild a few engines in my day, al be it not a new one with all the computer crap..

My point it, and perhaps this is what is missing in my OP, the vehicle should be shifting much sooner, therefor not allowing it to redline, however, in the case where it is redlining (of perhaps I should draw you a better picture. There is a gauge to the left of the speedometer, it is called a tachometer. It has numbers that go upto 7 RPM (or revolutions per minute 1 x 1000 up to 7000). The Red numbers start at 5.5 or 5500 and end at 7 or 7000. When my vehicle hits the red 5.5-6. range, it immediately dumps into "Limp Mode". The vehicle should have shifted gears by then but it doesn't and I seem to have to make this point again, I do not make a habit of putting the RPM's into the red. Now, you may be such a great driver and know your car so well that you never hit the red in any car you have ever driven, again, your prize and applause await you elsewhere. Just because my vehicle has gone in to the red does not make me a bad driver, nor does it detract for the point that there is an issue with the vehicle.

Again, I just do not appreciate your soap boxing in my thread. I do not sit and tell you how to drive your vehicle, your bike, boat, or whatever. I have had all of those as well before I got terminally ill with liver disease, now I am limited to my FJ cruiser. Which I take a **** load of pride in, however, try driving the roads in NJ, you will find that you have to punch the gas to merge on to most highways. When you have a vehicle like my FJ, that is not shifting properly when the RPM's are in the high end, and when it hits the high end rather than shifting or allowing your to take your foot off the gas and coast your speed down or even brake, the FJ goes into limp mode. OK? You get the problem now?

I don't care how good of a driver you are, that was never in question here and has no bearing on this thread. People accidently and some intentionally red line their vehicle all the time and don't have these issues.

Allow me to be clear just one more time. I do not drive the FJ into the Red on the RPM's. I hit the gas, it doesn't shift and the RPM's hit the red. This is not a function of poor driving. This is a function of the timing of the transmission / clutch engaging. I have no control over that, but when I need extra speed or I need a quick boost of power and I hit the gas, I don't control if it's going to shift of if it red lines. Also if I hit the gas and it downshifts into the red, I guess that is my poor driving too? I think not!. If I had a manual transmission, this would never happen, but I don't control the auto's shifting.

Now, if you don't mind, I would prefer to end this conversation with you KingTitan here. There is no more to be said with you on this issue.

Enough is enough. Learn to be respectful of others. I despise ever stooping to the level you did by calling me out and disrespecting me when you don't even know me. That is why I called you ignorant and immature. There was no reason for any of that. I hope in the future if you ever post in one of my threads that you can be polite and respectful, because your attitude added nothing at all to this entire thread, of course I will take fault because my rebuttal to your attitude added nothing either. This thread is pretty much a waste, but I hope that the next person that has a similar problem can still read through this thread and learn something and be helped by the suggestions in here that are worth being here.

Lastly and this is for anyone....

Please think before you reply. If your reply adds nothing to the OP then please don't post. These threads are not a place for flaming or personal attacks. People who come here post to learn not to be belittled and talked down to. If you think your misunderstanding what the OP is stating then ask, don't assume and then attack. People also come here to search these forums to learn from others. Don't waste their time having to read through someone's soapbox BS, it does no one any good. Let these forums be here for intelligent, useful discussion.

That being said, unless your post is regarding the OP, please do not post in this thread. I am not going to post again until I have something useful to add, such as more information from the dealership, or if someone provides me with information that is on topic. I ask that everyone else do the same to avoid this thread from being closed. I do not want this thread closed because I am not done learning about this problem. My driving has nothing to do with this problem and therefor does not belong in this thread. Let's keep the rest of this thread clean and to the point of the topic.

Thank you!

 

[51062]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

:lol: now that was good!:lol: and point taken.
there is something wrong and they will find it hopefully. I suggested you reach out to FJTest and or Jimmie (the trans guy) I`m sure these guys could make you feel a bit at ease. Hope your FJ gets fixed soon.
and just to be clear and not a wise ass, I`m well aware of Jersey roads. GSP and the NJ turnpike, 287, route 1 etc etc etc.
try driving down here where they pull right out into the left lane.
Good day sir, and good luck.

 

[ImpulseRed]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

So the FJ has only a little over 3K miles on it. The problem is that if I am driving down the road, or I am at a stop and I (for what ever reason I may have at the moment) have to stomp the gas, pushing the RPM's to about 5500 or so, the FJ turns of the ATRAC, the ATRAC and Check Engine lights come on, and I know longer have any power to the wheeels more or less. I hit the gas, RPM's will shoot up but I get no where in a hurry.

Okay, I read through the rest of the posts, and it looks like no one asked about this... Are you turning on ATRAC and then gunning the FJ, or are you talking about Traction Control?

There's a huge difference here. ATRAC should only be used in off-roading situations where you have lack of traction going uphill. It will not help your 0-60 times. Please clarify.

 

[Dardwizzle]

re: K&N Air intake causing codes / limp mode

Are you turning on ATRAC and then gunning the FJ, or are you talking about Traction Control?

There's a huge difference here. ATRAC should only be used in off-roading situations where you have lack of traction going uphill. It will not help your 0-60 times. Please clarify.

Well, let me try to answer this as best as I can since I still have a hard time understanding the entire traction control setup in the first place.

I can tell you that I am not "turning on" anything and then gunning the FJ. When I bought the FJ and asked the dealership how, what, and when to use ATRAC, they told me to leave it on as that is the all time traction control and would help avoid losing control if your tires were to slip.

Now, having said that, and as you know, there is a button for the ATRAC, but it is not really a button that indicates via the button if you have it on or off. The only way that I know if the ATRAC is on, is when there is no light on the Dash that says ATRAC OFF (yellow/orange light).

Having said that, I guess one could say that ATRAC is always on since I don't have a Dash light saying ATRAC Off. Now, again as for my driving habits, with the ATRAC being on as I was told by Toyota to leave it on, and I happened to hit the gas hard enough to make the RPM's hit the Red Zone, I imagine one could say that yes, ATRAC is On when this problem happens, but I am not "turning it on" just before I need to hit the gas.

I hope that I understood your questions and answered it appropriately. I understand that your saying that ATRAC should only be turned on when Off-Roading, but this is the first time I have ever heard that, and that includes from Toyota. I don't even recall anything in the manual stating that, and I read it multiple times so that I could try to understand what ATRAC and what the other traction control buttons do.

I am not discounting what you said, I have just never heard that, nor read it anywhere. I would think that one would want that feature on all the time, as I know when it is off and if I stomp the gas say when the traffic light changes, I can wind up spinning the tires, especially in the rain, and it doesn't take much of a bump on the gas peddle in the rain to cause the tires to spin with ATRAC off.

I hope I have answered your question well enough.

Thanks!
Dar.

PS - It's still at the dealership so I am still waiting to hear back from them. Hopefully today around 1600.