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Lift = Suspension Nightmares?

19K views 142 replies 38 participants last post by  beto 
#1 · (Edited)
About two months ago, I installed a 3" Toytec Lift (i.e., Part # FJ3-FRCC) w/ medium load OME front coil springs. Since then, I've taken about a dozen rather challenging trails both here in Rubicon Country and in the mountains/deserts of Utah.

On my recent Utah trip, the suspension problems began and continue. I broke my driver's side CV joint; I've worn the passenger side tie rod down to a dub (it's hanging on by a thread and needs immediate replacement); I've worn the driver's side tie rod down to near repalcement territory; and I've had numerous tire issues on the front.

Are these problems common among other FJ owners after a lift install (i.e., not, in particular, a Toytec lift, but any lift)? I've never had such rapid suspension deterioration in lifted Jeeps. I find this frustrating.

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#2 ·
About two months ago, I installed a 3" Toytec Lift (i.e., Part # FJ3-FRCC) w/ medium load OME front coil springs. Since then, I've taken about a dozen rather challenging trails both here in Rubicon Country and in the mountains/deserts of Utah.

On my recent Utah trip, the suspension problems began and continue. I broke my driver's side CV joint; I've worn the passenger side tie rod down to a dub (it's hanging on by a thread and needs immediate replacement); I've worn the driver's side tie rod down to near repalcement territory; and I've had numerous tire issues on the front.

Are these problems common among other FJ owners after a lift install? I've never had such rapid suspension deterioration in lifted Jeeps. I find this frustrating.
None of these problems you're having are common.

Pictures, pictures, pictures please?

Tie rods bend, break and the joint wears out but they don't normally wear down to a nub? Elaborate please and again a picture is worth a thousand words.

Tire issues, does that mean alignment problems?

:thinkerg:
 
#3 ·
Your over extending the suspension I would get a better lift, one thats designed not to go past the limits of what the other suspension parts can take.


May I recommend Icon coil overs, if thats out of your budget OME's should be fine.
I'm running Icon coil overs front and Icon rear shocks and haven't had any issues.
 
#5 ·
If people could just see what weeeee (Rob) did with his stock FJ!
 
#7 ·
About two months ago, I installed a 3" Toytec Lift (i.e., Part # FJ3-FRCC) w/ medium load OME front coil springs. Since then, I've taken about a dozen rather challenging trails both here in Rubicon Country and in the mountains/deserts of Utah.

On my recent Utah trip, the suspension problems began and continue. I broke my driver's side CV joint; I've worn the passenger side tie rod down to a dub (it's hanging on by a thread and needs immediate replacement); I've worn the driver's side tie rod down to near repalcement territory; and I've had numerous tire issues on the front.

Are these problems common among other FJ owners after a lift install? I've never had such rapid suspension deterioration in lifted Jeeps. I find this frustrating.
Sorry to hear of your issues but I think that you are experiencing things that many others are not having.

I have wheel'd the p!ss out of mine w/o the issues you describe. I just completed an 8300 mile trip which included Rubicon, Moab (Poison Spider, Moab Rib, Hell's Revenge and Fins & Things) as well as the much more "relaxed" trails of the FJSummit.

I don't mean to come off with any bragging, far from it since I know many others who have done way more in theirs than I have done in mine. Its just that I've done quite a bit of wheel'n in mine. With that said, I'm pretty slow and cautious, trying to do my best to avoid any damage. In fact, now that I have an Inchworm Lefty, I'm kind of annoyingly slow, allowing me to control my ascent/descents over challenging terrain.

Just my feedback, hope you find a solid solution and I would agree that your suspension choice may not be the best for your driving style and desired terrain...
 
#10 ·
His set up is this (From Toytec's web site)

Part # FJ3-FRCC

Included in kit:
2 OME Front lift coil springs (884 coils are the standard Light front coils)
NOTE: Select coil spring part number below if optional front coils are desired before adding to cart or 884 coils will be shipped
NOTE: 886 Heavy front coils require OME N140s front shocks sold below. OME front shocks will improve ride quality.
ToyTec Top plate spacers For a full 3" front lift
6 top plate studs
2" lift ToyTec "stock ride" rear coil springs (10% increase above stock capacity and spring rate for the best ride and flex)
Installation instructions
 
#9 ·
After more reveiw it looks like you installed two things that do not go together at lest from what I can tell.


Let me know if this is correct. You installed a OME medium spring and a toytec spacer up front. Is that right?
 
#11 ·
Links to this info, please?

Also, it may all be installed wrong. What's your driving style?

If you do swap suspension and can't afford ICON, I'd suggest the new adjustable Toytecs. I absolutely love mine.

We need pics.
 
#14 ·
From my understanding he has OME med and a spacer installed, I may be wrong but thats what it sounds like to me. If that is what he is doing then he has way to much lift (OME + spacer = to much lift = bad CV and steering angles) Bad install is a possibility, pictures would be nice.
 
#15 ·
From my understanding he has OME med and a spacer installed, I may be wrong but thats what it sounds like to me. If that is what he is doing then he has way to much lift (OME + spacer = to much lift = bad CV and steering angles) Bad install is a possibility, pictures would be nice.
Yup! Spacers on top of a 3" will wreck CV's + more in a hurry
 
#13 ·
well if you are running the N140s and top spacers you are extending the parts well beyond their limits, if you are using the stock shock, OME spring and a spacer you may not be extending them as much as you are jarring them. the stock shocks on the front will top and bottom out quickly slamming to a stop in either direction putting extra force on thin parts.
 
#16 ·
884 and spacer is too much if you are not running a bumper. Also what wheels and tires do you have? You could be set too far back or too far forward with you back spacing or you may of have gotten a tire that is too wide for the wheel.

more info is needed

I and running 885s with the spacer , but I also have a fabfours and winch up there so i have more than enough weight to preload the springs and have 0 problems offroad.
 
#18 ·
The spacer that comes with the FJ3-FRCC is a samll top plate spacer that gives it a full three inches of lift. I have the same setup, except with the Heavies up front and the OME shocks that are recommended. I am also running an ALL Pro front Bumper with a Warn M8000 winch. Now with my setup it is still too tall because my Winch and bumper combo are not heavy enough to weigh it down to the right height. Now Doug at Toytec warned me not to run the top plate spacer unless I had the ARB bumper, since it was a lot heavier than my All Pro. I have worn driver side CV boot and now have installed a diff drop to compensate for this.

I am currently overseas so I can't measure the top plate spacer, but I would say that it is no more than a 1/4" in thick and maybe thinner....If Doug could chime in here from Toytec...
 
#19 ·
Correct me if I'm wrong folks but the top plate spacer that comes with the toytec lift that I bought from Doug the FJ3-FRCC it's a bad idea to run that top spacer for the "full 3 inch lift" That's what it seems like reading these posts please correct me if I misunderstood.
(I am installing this lift tomorrow and want to know)
 
#20 ·
If you dont plan on wheeling hard it should be fine. if you do any sort of regular wheeling you have a couple options, don't run the spacers, run the spacers and attach limiting straps, or run the spacers and install a diff dropdown. if you are running the longer shocks the extra little bit of lift the spacers give you is almost unnoticeable but it is enough to potentially damage parts depending on the terrain you run and how hard you run it.
 
#21 · (Edited)
What's causing the worn tie rods, guys?
 
#22 ·
How long will this be a problem. I do plan on doing some fire roads and mild wheeling and if I don't put those spacers on will it look really stupid with a big rake up front? I have the 884s and no added front weight. I am starting to question what Doug at toytec told me when ordering this lift. ???
 
#23 ·
you have a big rake with no extra weight and 884's??? That seems odd. With 885's and the ARB i was sitting perfectly level and that is with an extra 150lbs. the 884's should provide about 2.5" of lift. Can you take a side shot pic of the cruiser and post it? I personally wouldn't run a spacer with the OME lift since it was not designed to be used with one. A spacer with a lift springs want to push the control arms further down at full droop than they should be.
 
#24 ·
...I was referring to the original post with the comments that were made. Thanks for chiming in because I am doing my lift tomorrow. Why would they include the top spacer with the lift kit package when I bought it from toytec if it is not recommended.? I am so confused on this whole deal. So should I or should I not run the spacer that is recommend ? Doug said it was good but now everyone is saying no? please respond a.s.a.p
 
#25 ·
If you want to hear it from the horses mouth, call up ARB in the morning before you start on the lift. I have called them up with questions on installs on almost everything i have bought from them (ARB bumper sliders, OME lifts, IPF lights, and will probably call them when i buy a snorkel) and their technicians have been VERY helpful. I had a question on the lift washers, the tech went downstairs and looked at the lift on the FJ in their shop just to confirm what he was saying and asked if i wanted him to take a picture and send it to me. Their customer service is why they will continue to get my business.
 
#27 ·
I have too say, if you are not going to go nutz, it sounds like the OME is the best simple lift that does not hurt the FJ, we can use.
I sure do read a lot of posts, and I dont see much about any problems with it. It works good for just about all that have it.
I have seen some bad installs, done by people that dont like to read, or dont watch what they are doing (how do you install a spring retainer upside down? Who does that?). TMO...
When I get the cash up this fall, I will do a OME 3" Med. spring, cuzz a lot of us seem to love it.
Again IMO.
 
#28 ·
FJCryptographer,

What front shocks are you using?

The Toytec FJ3-FRCC kit used with a stock shock absorber (or anything with the same extended length) will work without the aforementioned issues. The use of the top spacer as supplied in the FJ3-FRCC kit will not over-extend any of the suspension components any more than lifting the rig with the longer OME front shocks.

Now if you have the longer OME shocks in conjunction with the top spacer, then you will over-extend the components resulting in the problems you mentioned.

Lets see some pics of your setup.
 
#29 ·
supraturd..thanks for what you just said, that has convinced me that this lift will be alright. I have been stressing out about this same exact lift, but tomorrow a.m. it's getting put on. Thanks again for the responses, I'll let you all know how it goes...
(i would also like to see pics of the op)
 
#31 ·
Well I live in the Northern part of California and will experience some moderate trail riding, nothing extreme and was just wondering how well it will hold up, because after reading this post I am kind of iffy but I guess it is not the same set-up. Thanks for the response.
 
#32 ·
I have the Toytec OME lift with medium springs in front and rear...and the extra top mounts that are thicker for the full 3" lift up front. I am running stock shocks with this setup per ToyTecs recommendation.

No issues...no problems. I would recommend the guy contact ToyTec and ask them since they were the vendor FIRST before going to the group of us here. It was my understanding that the use of the stock shocks may limit my wheel travel in rear slightly but that was only real limitation.

Lets get a ToyTec person on this thread and cut out some of the speculation before everyone is confused.
 
#34 ·
the rig is an absolute nightmare in itself. the suspension just makes medium sized problems gigantic
 
#36 ·
Doug's shop is about 45 minutes from my house and I have been buying parts from him for a couple of years now, for my old 00' Taco and now my FJ. I have called each time to ensure I was ordering the right parts and he has been very helpful in his explanations...now as far as the Kit goes this is what I understand:

OME Heavies and top plate spacer=need to use with ARB or heavy type bumper & winch combo to bring the springs to proper height without having problems.

OME Med. or soft and top plate spacer fine.

I am now setup with the heavies, top plate spacer, diff drop, and OME shocks at four corners.

Before the diff drop I had problems with driver side CV boot, which I expected would happen because I have a lighter weight bumper and winch combo, my fault, I just didn't expect it to wear out that quickly. Now, no problems. The different springs (Heavy, Med, Soft) are not setup specifically to provide more than lift than the others, just to accommodate the use of heavy bumpers without making the front end droop.
 
#37 ·
About two months ago, I installed a 3" Toytec Lift (i.e., Part # FJ3-FRCC) w/ medium load OME front coil springs. Since then, I've taken about a dozen rather challenging trails both here in Rubicon Country and in the mountains/deserts of Utah.

On my recent Utah trip, the suspension problems began and continue. I broke my driver's side CV joint; I've worn the passenger side tie rod down to a dub (it's hanging on by a thread and needs immediate replacement); I've worn the driver's side tie rod down to near replacement territory; and I've had numerous tire issues on the front.

Are these problems common among other FJ owners after a lift installed? I've never had such rapid suspension deterioration in lifted Jeeps. I find this frustrating.
What is happening to your rig is due to the over extension of your front components. You have too much droop or down travel. I won't name names but certain suspensions simply allows too much droop in the front end causing parts to wear out faster.

We have seen countless rigs in our shops with these problems. If the customer asks us too we will simply lift the front of the vehicle and show them the wheel bind and improper use of suspension components.

I always ask the customers that have these problems, how many ties rods have you broken or worn out and the answer always scares me people have gotten use to replacing worn parts like they are changing there oil. Or they have gotten use to the loose feeling worn out parts give.

There is a simple way to check if your front end has problems, if you jack up the front of the FJ with a jack in the center try to spin your wheels if they don't spin freely you are going to have problems sooner or later. Also check your Upper control arm it should "not" be resting on your coil over. If it is that is "bad"!
The wheel not spinning is because your CV can only handle a certain amount of angle and you have gone past that so it's binding on it self. Which could lead to breakage at some point? The worse part is if your CV is binding at full droop your inner tie rod is doing much worse things. The inner tie rod is the first thing to bind in the down travel portion of your suspension cycle. It has a plastic inner sleeve and you are slowly wearing that piece out till the steering becomes very loose and or the tie rod could just break.

(Insert unintentional sales pitch)
We sale the Icon because, we at Demello Off-Road have been dealing with this suspension since they came out 1995. Icon is the first company I have found that actually takes the time to make its coil overs with in the tight tolerance that the factory geometry can handle.

So go out and lift the front of your FJ with a jack spin each front tire if it binds you will have problems sooner or later.
 
#38 ·
My advice (from personal experience), Buy the OME kit (light , med, heavy depending on what you need), ditch the factory shocks and springs (wimpy). Don't add any additional spacers etc. Don't bother with spacer lifts or some kit that uses stock shocks. The OME shocks are far superior to the mall cruiser/soccer mom shocks that come with the FJ's. The height gained from the OME system is the maximum height you can go with the factory geometry without damage or excessive wear. There are other suspension kits with adjustable shocks (height and dampening), but in the world of offroading, simplicity rules and is usually the most trouble free. Expensive rebuildables are cool looking and may be trick, but they tend to be more trouble than they are worth (maybe they are rebuildable for a reason?). If my OME shocks leak after the 2 year warranty, I'll replace them (relatively cheap).
I am running the medium setup all around and it works great (I have the ARB bumper and a T-max 10K winch). The ride is very nice on the highway and the front end doesn't bottom out. The medium kit also works well if you don't have a bumper and a winch, although the ride is a bit firm.
 
#39 ·
With all due respect to our vendors who support our vehicle, I simply don't understand how/why a top plate spacer would be needed in order to achieve a "3 inch lift" on the front.

I'm running OME 886's with N140's, loaded on the front with a Demello bumper, Warn 8k winch and Bud's skids. This set up gives me over a "3 inch lift" as measured at the front recovery points from stock. This set up gives me a CV angle that I'm comfortable with but watchful of.

I've done the "test" as suggested by Jason and all is good. Once I beat this set up to a point of replacement, Jason' knows that I'll be calling him for an Icon set up...
 
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