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I know I've been reading that this was going to be the case but I still can't figure out what the advantage to making 4wd "full time" in the manual tranny FJ's is? I'd love to buy a "stick" model but this almost has me convinced to retreat to an automatic. One of the reasons I really like "sticks" is it is a lot cheaper to replace a clutch if you keep a vehicle for a long time (as do I) than replace an entire automatic transmission. I'd have to think the "full time" 4wd mechanism would "wash out" any durability gains of the manual transmission. That and the gas mileage is worse on the stick. I'd really love to buy a manual but now I don't know what to do? I'm kind of bummed but I probably shouldn't be.
 

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FWI (I don't claim to be an expert, just my opinion and experience) -

I am in the same boat as you. For my next vehicle I had wanted a manual tranny with a manualy engaged transfer case with 2Hi, 4Hi and 4Lo. This is why I rulled out the new generation 4Runners - no manual tranny and only an electronicly engaged 4WD (for v6 models) or a full time 4wd (v8 models).
The full time 4wd system going to be offered on the FJ (from what I have been able to read) is based on a Torsen center differential. This has been used in the original military spec'ed Hummers, Audi Quattros, Toyota's Celica GT4 (1995ish) and is currentlly in today's AWD 4Runners & Land Cruisers.

The things that I have read and like about the Torsen system are as follows:

- They are 100% mechanical in nature (no electrical doo dads for sensing)
- They allow the axles to spin at different speeds during cornering (prevents binding of wheels during turns unlike my conventional manual Tacoma part time 4wd set up when engaged)
- AWD is always on and nearly instantaneous in response when it senses wheel slip sending power/torque to the wheels(s) with the most traction

In regards to your concern with the clutch life/durability for a manual trans, I don't think/see how a Torsen AWD set up would decrese its life span vs a part time 4wd. Clutch life, in my experience, I've found to be limited by how well you can drive a stick, how much/often you do towing and whether or not you 'ride' the clutch.

Having said that - I LOVE manual trans missions and HATE automatics. However, I know that if you have your auto trans flushed and serviced on a regular basis, that it should give you no problems with longevity. Especially with todays auto trannys.

For me, the biggest reason I want/love manual tranys is because I can use the engine for braking/slowing instead of using the brakes. (I have found that this gives me more control of the vehicle during hairy driving situations.) Plus I like to shift - I feel more in control of the vehicle.

I have driven sticks since 86, toyota sticks since 91 and toyota stick part time 4wd trucks since 95. I have never had a clutch fail on me. My 95 tacoma 4x4 had 364k miles before the engine croaked, and my curent tacoma 4x4 has 183k and is will be driven till I get my FJ. Both have the stock clutches. :) I am now seriously considering the Torsen AWD manual trans set up.

So - I think it is all then a matter of prefference whether you want a manual or auto trans. I doubt Toyota would use the AWD set up if there were any reliability issues.

just my 2 cents - good luck

(Hurry up March - I want my FJ!!)
 

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4X4 wth manual would be my choice too, but I don't really understand why it gets worse mileage than 4X4 automatic (based on the Inside Line review:
Preliminary mileage numbers are 18/22 for the automatic 4x2, 16/19 for the 4x4 with manual transmission and 17/21 for the 4x4 automatic.
Isn't supposed to be the other way around?
 

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manual is full time 4wd. enough of this manual manhood. a manual only belongs in something like a Lotus Elise.
 

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corbin said:
I know I've been reading that this was going to be the case but I still can't figure out what the advantage to making 4wd "full time" in the manual tranny FJ's is? I'd love to buy a "stick" model but this almost has me convinced to retreat to an automatic. One of the reasons I really like "sticks" is it is a lot cheaper to replace a clutch if you keep a vehicle for a long time (as do I) than replace an entire automatic transmission. I'd have to think the "full time" 4wd mechanism would "wash out" any durability gains of the manual transmission. That and the gas mileage is worse on the stick. I'd really love to buy a manual but now I don't know what to do? I'm kind of bummed but I probably shouldn't be.
The full time system will use a center visco coupling, similar to the Subaru system, with a manual transfer case allowing 4H, 4H locked and 4L locked. This is an extremely simple and reliable system and would never give you any trouble. The gas mileage does suffer a bit because of it due to the extra drag the drivetrain creates and the extra bit of power required to get the mass rotating.

Jason
 

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you can also use a auto tranny as a braking system just as you can a manual. It works great in the snow, and it sure as hell beats using your brakes to slow down
 

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kingkong said:
Which system is better off road? A part time system or a full time system?
Either way it won't matter because they both have low range. The full time also has a center differential lock that can be engaged so it can behave just like a part time sytem in high range.
 

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All these things may be true, but it is infinitely easier to drift a corner with a manual. Autos just don't seem to like to do it as well as a manual.
 

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n6opv said:
The full time system will use a center visco coupling, similar to the Subaru system, with a manual transfer case allowing 4H, 4H locked and 4L locked. This is an extremely simple and reliable system and would never give you any trouble. The gas mileage does suffer a bit because of it due to the extra drag the drivetrain creates and the extra bit of power required to get the mass rotating.

Jason

Where did you find the info that the FJ Torsen unit will be a visco coupling unit? I was under the impression that the Torsen design was all mechanical and not visco coupling. In fact, the Torsen design has all the benefits of a VC, with none of its draw backs. The Torsen is 'proactive' as opposed to the VC which is 'reactive'. A VC has to have wheel spin before it locks where as a the Torsen locks before wheel spin occurs, which means more traction.

Here is one interesting link on diff locks I found that explains it better:

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/difflocks.shtml

I agree with the reason you give for decresed mileage -> increased drag on the drive line (full time AWD) = lower mpg.

Even with the lower mpg, I am still gonna opt for the manual tranny. It's all a matter of prefference me thinks.
 
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