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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been trying to deal with a few dealerships on a deal for a 2011 Fj. I have this one dealer who will sell me any new 2011 Fj at Invoice with a lifetime (or as long as I own it) warranty on the engine and transmission.
Now i have thoroughly checked and they are all indeed invoice prices but then there are all these fees that I am unfamiliar with. Can anyone here explain these to me and if they are legit or not?
4x4 autom $23,923
Off road pk $592
Conv pk $1720
wheels $520 (even though i didnt want them says is part of off road pkg)
running lights $32
Roof Rack $425
pass arm rest $75

Now the fees;

$875 Destination fee.. I am familiar with this one
$518 Total Locally Installed
$813 T.M.F.
$537 Base Vehicle holdback
$76 PIO holdback
$268 1% Financial Reserve MSRP

Any help here would be greatly appreciated because this just doesnt sound right.
 

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Have you asked them to explain these fees to you ? I'd be asking. If they don't explain to your satisfaction, run like hell.
 

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Have you asked them to explain these fees to you ? I'd be asking. If they don't explain to your satisfaction, run like hell.
I agree. Go to edmunds, CR, or truecar.com, figure your true cost, the the heck with all those fees...you'll find someone who will not charge all those junk fees....just a way to pad the price, like '$400 window etching'...BTW, truecar.com does figure in regional fees like destination charge....
 

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I have been trying to deal with a few dealerships on a deal for a 2011 Fj. I have this one dealer who will sell me any new 2011 Fj at Invoice with a lifetime (or as long as I own it) warranty on the engine and transmission.
Now i have thoroughly checked and they are all indeed invoice prices but then there are all these fees that I am unfamiliar with. Can anyone here explain these to me and if they are legit or not?
4x4 autom $23,923
Off road pk $592
Conv pk $1720
wheels $520 (even though i didnt want them says is part of off road pkg)
running lights $32
Roof Rack $425
pass arm rest $75

Now the fees;

$875 Destination fee.. I am familiar with this one
$518 Total Locally Installed
$813 T.M.F.
$537 Base Vehicle holdback
$76 PIO holdback
$268 1% Financial Reserve MSRP

Any help here would be greatly appreciated because this just doesnt sound right.
$518 Dealer installed options. TInt, door guards etc etc. Even if its things you dont want there is still a cost involved.
$813 T.M.F. Toyota Market Fund Everytime you see a ad or commerical on T.V. it has to be paid for. They build it into every car they sell.
$537 Kick back for the dealer. They do get to keep this money even if they sell it at invoice which I think is fair.
$76 PIO Port Installed Options Holdback. Same as Normal holdback but that is for the options from the port. I.E. Gulfstates Toyota in the South.
$268 This is because most dealers floorplan there cars with Toyota. Finance them if that makes sense. Thats why dealers will sometimes sell older cars cheaper then newer ones so they dont have to pay all the Reserve.

Hope this helps.
If they will sell it at invoice. Jump on it. All the other fees is the only way the dealer will make any money which they have to be able to sell to the public.
 

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yup i had the same issue, but i ended up paying just the dealer mark ups... so in essence invoice. its a great deal cause even vs trucar i saved 600 off the true car value...
 

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Destination fee is legit. Dealer installed options is NOT (especially if it the anti-theft etching) - try to find out what they did. They typically mark this up several hundred percent. The holdback is NOT legit. It is already in the invoice price, so they are double-booking holdback. Financial reserve is also not legit. That is tied to holdback. Holdback is their buffer to finance the vehicle while on the lot. The sooner they sell, the more they get to keep.

Good luck!
 

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Destination fee is legit. Dealer installed options is NOT (especially if it the anti-theft etching) - try to find out what they did. They typically mark this up several hundred percent. The holdback is NOT legit. It is already in the invoice price, so they are double-booking holdback. Financial reserve is also not legit. That is tied to holdback. Holdback is their buffer to finance the vehicle while on the lot. The sooner they sell, the more they get to keep.

Good luck!
True about the dealer installed options. Lots of profit built in those.

Holdback is as legit as they come. It has nothing to do with the(invoice price) base price of the car which is the very top line before adding any options or fees "double booking":lol:
 

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Dealers have other sources of profit. For example, a dealer may also receive incentives from the manufacturer for selling a particular model or a certain number of units in a particular time period.
Also, what they don't make on the sale of a new unit may be made up for by what they pay for a trade or what they sell a used unit for. According to my friend who owned a BMW dealership and a GM I know at large multi line dealership, they generally make more from the sale of a used unit than they do a new one. Consumers generally know a lot more about what a dealer has in a new vehicle than they do about what the dealer has in a used one.
So they can sell at 'invoice' and still make a nice profit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys, i appreciate the help. Even though there are some conflicting opinions, i at least understand WHAT they are. i still think $3k of Fees is crap. Just got another deal tonight for $29,796. Told them my other offers and even added the pred tube step, so in reality it was $370 cheaper and didnt have all the fees. Each has a "doc fee" which i dont know what it is for. but i do know that the place down the street is $400 where the one in Slidell is $98. so if these guys come up with a legit price for a doc fee i might be buyin a NEW FJ !!
 

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Thanks guys, i appreciate the help. Even though there are some conflicting opinions, i at least understand WHAT they are. i still think $3k of Fees is crap. Just got another deal tonight for $29,796. Told them my other offers and even added the pred tube step, so in reality it was $370 cheaper and didnt have all the fees. Each has a "doc fee" which i dont know what it is for. but i do know that the place down the street is $400 where the one in Slidell is $98. so if these guys come up with a legit price for a doc fee i might be buyin a NEW FJ !!
if it is on the "factory" window sticker it is a legit fee. ask to see the dealer invoice on the car. it should be printed from a website called "dealer daily". this is toyota's website for dealers to control their inventory. don't pay for any dealer installed extras. tell them you will wait for the next factory shipment and you don't want it modified. agree on a price and get a signed purchase order signed by a sales manager. make sure they don't hand wright anything on the po like dealer installed options additional, market adjustment, etc. just the price you agree on. it is very important that it is signed by a manager.
 

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Thanks guys, i appreciate the help. Even though there are some conflicting opinions, i at least understand WHAT they are. i still think $3k of Fees is crap. Just got another deal tonight for $29,796. Told them my other offers and even added the pred tube step, so in reality it was $370 cheaper and didnt have all the fees. Each has a "doc fee" which i dont know what it is for. but i do know that the place down the street is $400 where the one in Slidell is $98. so if these guys come up with a legit price for a doc fee i might be buyin a NEW FJ !!
That doc fee is maxed by law in some states and a dice roller in others. $400 is too much for a clerk to register your vehicle and process paperwork...on the other hand, dealers who charge $50-$100 aren't messing too much with you on that one, considering the amount of work that goes into processing all of the documents for the sale. You are right to question the higher amounts for a doc fee and I've been successful in the past getting the F&I guy to drop that one to below $100 if they want the sale...

Good luck in your negotiations!:cheers:
 
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