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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Edit: This is the "new" rotation pattern that is discussed later in the thread; several people got interested so I thought I'd post it in the first message of this thread:
Parallel Auto part Circle Font Diagram

The original post follows:



Hi, there are popular images on the internet that explain how to do a 5 tire rotation:



The problem is:
  • I have a 6MT 4x4 permanent
  • I have bought about 5000 miles ago 5 brand new tires (BF All Terrain)
  • I am going to rotate the tires tomorrow before a road trip (no or little offroad this time :( )

Today I have measured the thread usage on the tires and, even thought I only had a ruler, by making multiple measurements on each tire, I can say that:
  • The rear tires have about one less mm than the spare tire, that has never been used
  • The front tires have about one less mm of thread than the rear tires, that means about 2mm less than the spare.

For this reasons, I find strange that the spare is rotated to the rear right on a 4x4 model... wouldn't be better to rotate it to the front, so the wear will be more "even"?

I am probably missing something here... ???


bye
as
 

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I use G rotation pattern.
1-2mm isn't going to make much of a difference.

My BFGs on the LC i just sold had 50K miles on them (5 tire rotation) and probably had a bare minimum another 30K miles of useful tread. You will get much longer life out of your tires rotating all 5.
 

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This is what BellyDoc says.

For 5 tire systems, I advocate to rotate the spare into the line-up and do a "crossed pentagon" rotation. Front right to rear left, rear left to spare, spare to rear right. Rear right to front left. Front left to front right. This reverses the rotation of every tire, every time. Reversing rotation is a good idea when you tend to air up and down, because low air pressures tend to make a big flat spot on the contact patch of the tire against the ground (too much and it "cups"), and then the lugs scrub as they lift off. This tends to wear away the trailing edge of each lug. Reversing direction shares the burden with both edges over time.
 

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I have a 6MT, have never rotated the tires. The stock Dunlops wore very evenly and the current rubber(Treadwrights) are wearing even. I check my tire pressure weekly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I use G rotation pattern.
You will get much longer life out of your tires rotating all 5.
Of course 5 tire rotation is not the question, but the fact that the most unused tire is put in a position that is not the most "aggressive". I still think the "G" pattern could be improved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is what BellyDoc says.

For 5 tire systems, I advocate to rotate the spare into the line-up and do a "crossed pentagon" rotation.
Very interesting!

I think changing rotation direction is important indeed.
But, in this case there is still the "issue" that the (so far unused) spare tire is put in a position, rear right, that is not the most stressful, and the front left stays in the front where it will still be subject to a more aggressive wear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have a 6MT, have never rotated the tires. The stock Dunlops wore very evenly and the current rubber(Treadwrights) are wearing even. I check my tire pressure weekly.
I did not have stock dunlops, mine had the offroad package with BFG's "rugged terrain". In my case I tend to do a lot of off-road, as I do not commute and only use the FJ to go on trips (32k miles in three years). I bought 5 new tires because I basically disintegrated all 5 stock "rugged terrains".
 

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I'm interested in what people say is the best rotation pattern. I have been using the cross rotation pattern that BellyDoc mentioned, but I'm still curious about the best placement for the spare, As manoweb said, mine hasn't been used yet either. Just looking to get the best wear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
So while I was ... in the bathroom, I thought of this pattern:

Parallel Auto part Circle Font Diagram



  • it always changes direction of rotation for each tire
  • it never allows a tire to stay too much in the most stressful area

What do you guys think? I will have to go tomorrow morning at 8AM so I think I will ask this pattern.
 

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That pattern seems to solve the issue of getting opposite wear on every tire while also keeping the tires from staying too used or unused, depending on location. I might give it a try at the next rotation.
 

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I like that pattern. With a floor jack it means you only have to lift the rear end once so it saves a little time over the way I was doing it. Nice work manoweb.
 

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So while I was ... in the bathroom, I thought of this pattern:



- it always changes direction of rotation for each tire
- it never allows a tire to stay too much in the most stressful area

What do you guys think? I will have to go tomorrow morning at 8AM so I think I will ask this pattern.
Interesting rotation pattern--Counterclockwise Cross. I like it and this is better than what's in the owner's manual. I've also measured more wear on the front tires on my old set of BFG MTs so this should help with getting even wear out of the five tires. I'll give it a try at the next rotation. Thanks for sharing. :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
On a directional tire this will not work
I use directional tires on my other car, that has two seats only. I have never seen directional All-Terrains (I am not saying they don't exist thou). Most All-Terrains, in fact, let you choose if you want the wall with white or black markings.

In any case this thread is about different patterns of 5-tire rotation for off-road usage, it *implies* the tires are not directional (how could a full-spare be directional by the way?)

One of the points of this rotation pattern is to ensure to ALWAYS change the direction at every rotation. If you have directional tires then *do not attempt what is discussed on this thread*, I think that was clear.
 

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So while I was ... in the bathroom, I thought of this pattern:



- it always changes direction of rotation for each tire
- it never allows a tire to stay too much in the most stressful area

What do you guys think? I will have to go tomorrow morning at 8AM so I think I will ask this pattern.
I've been using the rearward cross pattern (G) because, once the spare is removed and ready, it allows me to jack up one side and make changes and then the other side and make changes. As long as rotations are on set intervals they seem to wear pretty closely but if you go over or skip one the differences in wear are more apparent. Of course this will be the case with any rotation pattern.

I don't see any reason why your pattern won't work as well or better than the others as far as wear is concerned but it is not as convenient in terms of jacking the vehicle as the G pattern.

On a directional tire this will not work
This may be true but most of us aren't running directional tires, and with that in mind, patterns F and G in the first post won't work either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Learn something new every day
The outer side does not imply the direction? If you mount it on the left will rotate in a way, if on the right on the opposite way, or I do not understand what you mean with that.

What tire is it in the picture?

bye!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I don't see any reason why your pattern won't work as well or better than the others as far as wear is concerned but it is not as convenient in terms of jacking the vehicle as the G pattern.
So I run some numerical analysis and the (still partial) results are in this "OpenOffice" file, if you want to have a look:

rotations.ods [52kB]
You will have to enable macros to get the numbers.

Here are some charts I've made:
  • M = my own pattern, described in post #9
  • P = "BellyDoc's" pattern described in post #3
  • F and G are the "common" patterns used shown in post #1

The analysis assumes that, in a 5000 miles interval, front tires will wear 2mm, rear tires 1mm, spare 0mm :)

This can be changed in the spreadsheet to show all possible scenarios but let's look at the "cumulative wear" of the different tires:






I think in case of M the tire wear stays "closer" for all tires during their lifespan (the lines are more packed together), while P has a great variation of the wear level. F and G are somewhat in the middle.

What do you think? Keep also in mind that M and P are the only ones that ALWAYS reverse direction at each maintenance.

I might very well be overlooking something important here; let me know...
 
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