[manoweb]

Hi, the 6MT models have a button that "cancels" the check for a pressed clutch wen attempting to start the engine. Well, I want to remove that check, like if the button is always pressed; in fact, the "clutch cancel" gets reset after the engine has started, so next time you have to press it again. I just want to be able to start the engine when I want, with no checks, all the time.

Any idea what I should do? There must be a wire that detects if the clutch is pressed, maybe if I short it?

 

[Layonnn]

Be careful if you ever have anyone else start/drive your car.

In highschool at a soccer game, my gf went with her friend to go get in my jeep to turn on the heater. She had never driven a manual and started it with it in first gear. It jumped the curb and scared the crap out of them. Thank goodness it was parked where it was.

With that said. I am sure if you pull the switch out and just connect the wires you will be fine.

 

[FJNewb]

Don't have a manual transmission, but if I am understanding this you want the button to always tell the ECU/engine that the clutch is engaged....if so that means you would never actually be in gear. I.e. it'd be like having your foot on the clutch all the time. Even if you put it in gear as long as the button is still pressed all the that stepping on the gas would do is rev the engine.

At least thats the way I'm reading your request. I understand you wanting it for starting, but if the ECU doesn't cancel the clutch after you start, you'll never actually be able to drive anywhere unless you unselect the button.

For all that work it seems easier just to press the clutch haha.

 

[FJ4RWS]

Don't have a manual transmission, but if I am understanding this you want the button to always tell the ECU/engine that the clutch is engaged....if so that means you would never actually be in gear. I.e. it'd be like having your foot on the clutch all the time. Even if you put it in gear as long as the button is still pressed all the that stepping on the gas would do is rev the engine.

At least thats the way I'm reading your request. I understand you wanting it for starting, but if the ECU doesn't cancel the clutch after you start, you'll never actually be able to drive anywhere unless you unselect the button.

For all that work it seems easier just to press the clutch haha.

Doesn't quite work like that. The Clutch Cancel Switch is a separate circuit that is essentially a latching relay that parallels the Clutch Safety Switch. If either one is closed the starter can function. Shorting the safety switch will allow the starter to operate anytime the key is turned to start. The Cancel switch could be removed and this would still be the case. The switch that needs to be shorted is attached to the clutch pedal assembly and works just like the Brake switch. Back in the day before all the nanny state mandated features vehicles didn't have Clutch safety switches and operated just like the OP wants. Care does need to be used and attention paid to the fact that the FJ is geared low enough to crank and start/run in gear. Any who doesn't regularly drive manual trans or switches back and forth between manual and auto will at some point forget about the clutch, start the FJ in gear which will lurch forward and if the brake is not firmly pressed keep going. This condition has led to the "pressing the gas pedal instead of the brake" sudden acceleration accidents which led to the Clutch, Brake, Park-Neutral safety interlock switches being required.

 

[manoweb]

Be careful if you ever have anyone else start/drive your car.

What?!?!?! Let someone else drive MY car? Never
This is the first car that I own that has this check... and in ANY case, one should ALWAYS FULLY PRESS the BRAKE when starting a car, are we kidding? Especially nowadays with electronic injection, it is not required to work on the accelerator to start the engine, so the right foot is free. For one to turn the key without pressing any pedal, he/she must be REAL lazy

With that said. I am sure if you pull the switch out and just connect the wires you will be fine.

Do you think it will work? Somebody has done it already or it simply "very likely"?

I will try. I am only afraid it will take some effort to open up all the dashboard. I did that to install a switch for the fog lights.

Theoretically then I could put a "real" switch that I can "open" when somebody else is driving (after I am two meters below ground), enabling the "clutch check"

Some of the reasons I want to disable the clutch check are:

• It happened that I was sleeping inside the FJ (air mattress in cargo area) and it was much colder than expected so I needed to turn on the engine (for the heater) from a very inconvenient position. Of course I checked 1000 times I was in "neutral". Having to go down and reach for the "clutch cancel" button is extremely hard when you are "laying" on the back in a sleeping bag, believe me
• Today I was in the traffic doing a "complicated" move to change lane in a busy intersection. I was following another person and timing was critical. My mistake, I stalled (yes it happens to everybody) and I tried to restart and move the car as quickly as possible. In this case, I "mentally" do not press the clutch fully to MOVE as soon as possible. Other cars where arriving etc, and guess what, the clutch cancel thing prevented me to start and I put myself in a possibly dangerous situation.

PS are you the same guy that put the video on youtube about New York? That video was so funny I watched it few times with my wife. I would also like to visit New York one day...

 

[ducky]

yeah, I remember grounding the clutch start switch on a few of my cars in the past. I havent poked my head down there in a while, but does the FJ have a mechanical switch still? If so, it be as simple as shorting that wire.

 

[manoweb]

The Clutch Cancel Switch is a separate circuit that is essentially a latching relay that parallels the Clutch Safety Switch. If either one is closed the starter can function. Shorting the safety switch will allow the starter to operate anytime the key is turned to start.

Well probably but shorting the safety switch OR latching permanently the "Cancel Safety" should provide the same effect right?

The Cancel switch could be removed and this would still be the case. The switch that needs to be shorted is attached to the clutch pedal assembly and...

Do you have any idea how to recognize it?

Back in the day before all the nanny state mandated features vehicles didn't have Clutch safety switches and operated just like the OP wants.

So this is a state mandated thing? Oh my dear. I am new to US so I do not want to comment but - there are too many attorneys in this country.

keep going. This condition has led to the "pressing the gas pedal instead of the brake" sudden acceleration accidents which led to the Clutch, Brake, Park-Neutral safety interlock switches being required.

I think the "condition" is also known as "idiocracy"...

 

[manoweb]

yeah, I remember grounding the clutch start switch on a few of my cars in the past. I havent poked my head down there in a while, but does the FJ have a mechanical switch still? If so, it be as simple as shorting that wire.

So if this is the case, any possibility the ECU may "complain" or get confused by the fact it thinks the clutch is always "pressed"? Could VSC be affected by this?

 

[Layonnn]

So if this is the case, any possibility the ECU may "complain" or get confused by the fact it thinks the clutch is always "pressed"? Could VSC be affected by this?

Only one way to find out guinea pig. :bigthumb:

Just make sure whatever you do is reversible and you are good. Go experiment.

 

[manoweb]

Only one way to find out guinea pig. :bigthumb:

Just make sure whatever you do is reversible and you are good. Go experiment.

You didn't answer my "PS"...

 

[FJ4RWS]

Well probably but shorting the safety switch OR latching permanently the "Cancel Safety" should provide the same effect right?

Shorting the Safety Switch will do what you want.


Do you have any idea how to recognize it?

Open drivers door, put your head down by clutch pedal and you will see the clutch master cylinder connected to the pedal, just to the left of the cylinder is the switch, unplug the cable going to switch and jumper between the 2 pins and your done. To undo just remove jumper and replug cable to switch.

So this is a state mandated thing? Oh my dear. I am new to US so I do not want to comment but - there are too many attorneys in this country.

If there is a regulation it's a federal one. These 'helpful' safety features started showing up after Audi had a rash of sudden acceleration incidents back in the 70's-80's which just like the recent Toyota ones were shown to be "****pit trouble" as opposed to anything wrong with vehicle. Because Audi and now Toyota went through a massive amount of litigation over the complete lack of personal responsibility shown by the idiot drivers who crashed their own cars through their mistake manufacturers whether there are regulations or not have been equipping vehicles with devices to absolve them from liability. These include The clutch safety switch, Brake safety circuit. Park/neutral safety/brake interlock and more recently computer data logging which when you buy a new vehicle you have to sing an agreement to allow (in this case Toyota) to plug into your vehicle and download the collected data if there is an accident. This will tell them what speed you were traveling, when and how hard the brakes were applied. Throttle position and depending on the vehicle a bunch of other stuff.

I think the "condition" is also known as "idiocracy"...

Agree

 

[Layonnn]

You didn't answer my "PS"...

haha i missed that. No, i am not Shaycarl. I just think there videos are hilarious and he has really funny kids. I just have the link in my sig so that other folks can check it out that have never heard of it. The video in New York literally reminds me of the movie Elf. He is like a little kid in a grownups body. :lol:

 

[ducky]

I dont know for 100% it wont affect the functioning of the car, but I doubt it. Ive checked the wiring diagram, and the clutch switch (yeah, it shows it being a mechanical switch, so good to go), just completes the circuit on BROWN-YELLOW stripe wire PIN 11C on the ECU to the BLUE-YELLOW stripe wire on PIN 8C.

2. Nothing else is piggy-backed off the wire, and its only used by the "neutral switch" indicator on the ECU. VSC and all related functions normally work if the car is ever put in neutral, even at highway speeds, so your probably good to go there. Also, airbags and safety equipment uses a completely separate sub-harness, so no worries about it interfering with that.

3. If an electrical guru can download the electrical manual ( FJ Cruiser Electrical and Wiring Manuals and Diagrams - MyFJCruiser.com - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum Community ) and check out the enginecontrol.pdf to confirm the clutch cancel switch functionality... Im no expert and I see a capacitor so looks like the switch stays somewhat energized (same as pushing the clutch in to start) for a period of time after the car gets moving.

Reminds me... shifting the car hits the switch and no errors occur and based on 2, 3 above... Im 80% sure grounding the switch doesnt affect the FJ.

 

[manoweb]

Agree

I will try, let's see what I find down there...

 

[manoweb]

I will try, let's see what I find down there...

OK, it seems I've done it, it was pretty simple, I will post some pictures later.

bye!
as

 

[manoweb]

So at the end it's a very easy mod that everybody capable of driving a M/T should do; the advantages are inherent.

It's quite easy to see the "Clutch Mechanical Switch"; at its left, there is a connector that can be easily opened. Once disconnected, you won't be able to start the engine anymore, as the system will always think the clutch has not been pressed.

But it is enough to short the connector to bypass the "safety" system. This picture is only an example, in reality I used a shorted and thicker wire that should be a bit more robust.

Some tape will help the wire to stay in place. The connector can be folded inside the compartment at the left so it will be protected from your boots.

There could be a better solution; if the tape and the wire become loose you won't be able to start the engine. Suggestions? Maybe I could buy the type of connector that is mounted on the mechanical switch side, modify it so it's shorted, and securely latch it to the connector on the left...

 

[bjorno]

I did pretty much the same as you describe, with the addition of extending the wire that create the short. In that wire I put a toggle switch and hid the switch in a suitable position under the dash. When I park the rig, I flip the switch to disengage it - an instant anti theft device. Even someone with a key won't be able to start it. To start, toggle the switch to the "on" position and no need to worry about the clutch.

Bjorn

So at the end it's a very easy mod that everybody capable of driving a M/T should do; the advantages are inherent.

View attachment 41135

It's quite easy to see the "Clutch Mechanical Switch"; at its left, there is a connector that can be easily opened. Once disconnected, you won't be able to start the engine anymore, as the system will always think the clutch has not been pressed.

View attachment 41136

But it is enough to short the connector to bypass the "safety" system. This picture is only an example, in reality I used a shorted and thicker wire that should be a bit more robust.

View attachment 41137

Some tape will help the wire to stay in place. The connector can be folded inside the compartment at the left so it will be protected from your boots.

There could be a better solution; if the tape and the wire become loose you won't be able to start the engine. Suggestions? Maybe I could buy the type of connector that is mounted on the mechanical switch side, modify it so it's shorted, and securely latch it to the connector on the left...

 

[manoweb]

When I park the rig, I flip the switch to disengage it - an instant anti theft device.

Well, unless they press the "clutch cancel switch" !!!

 

[bjorno]

Nope - forgot to mention that - took that switch out.

Bjorn

Well, unless they press the "clutch cancel switch" !!!

 

[manoweb]

Nope - forgot to mention that - took that switch out.

That is important Yes I also plan to reuse that switch place for some other feature.