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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
If you ask Consumer Reports... if you ask the "average" American... if you ask 8 random SUV drivers willing to show up to a focus group for $125 and some M&Ms... You'll hear:

- It needs better visibility
- It should handle better on the street
- It should have leather, heated seats, memory seating, heated mirrors...
- It should get better gas mileage
- It should be easier to get in and out of

If you then instruct the design team to answer the market demands, you'll:

- Make the B and C pillars smaller and the windshield angle steeper
- Make it wider and lower with stiffer springs
- Option it up to $40k
- Wind tunnel it to death, kill the power...
- Lower it... more

And in the end, something great will have been killed by "perceived" market demands. This is an all too common thing. Remember the RX7? How 'about the Celica Supra, the Camaro, the CJ, the Land Crusier... oh, sorry about that last one ;)

Please don't water this one down. We don't need an other RAV, Highlander, 4Runner. Making it better doesn't have to mean making it more appealing to everyone. No need to cannibalize the above SUV's share anyway right.
 

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If you ask Consumer Reports... if you ask the "average" American... if you ask 8 random SUV drivers willing to show up to a focus group for $125 and some M&Ms... You'll hear:

- It needs better visibility
- It should handle better on the street
- It should have leather, heated seats, memory seating, heated mirrors...
- It should get better gas mileage
- It should be easier to get in and out of

If you then instruct the design team to answer the market demands, you'll:

- Make the B and C pillars smaller and the windshield angle steeper
- Make it wider and lower with stiffer springs
- Option it up to $40k
- Wind tunnel it to death, kill the power...
- Lower it... more

And in the end, something great will have been killed by "perceived" market demands. This is an all too common thing. Remember the RX7? How 'about the Celica Supra, the Camaro, the CJ, the Land Cruier... oh, sorry about that last one ;)

Please don't water this one down. We don't need an other RAV, Highlander, 4Runner. Making it better doesn't have to mean making it more appealing to everyone. No need to cannibalize the above SUV's share anyway right.
Amen!

Toyota if your looking for people from a focus group get a mixed set of people from these forums, or someone who actually loves their FJ, and is willing to let it roam free to what it's supposed to do. No offense to the common soccer mom, but I don't think anyone (especially not the manufacturer) should hear her opinion.
 

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:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

You are correct; If they do that, they'll have yet another cookie cutter offering (i.e. 3Runner).. Ron

If you ask Consumer Reports... if you ask the "average" American... if you ask 8 random SUV drivers willing to show up to a focus group for $125 and some M&Ms... You'll hear:

- It needs better visibility
- It should handle better on the street
- It should have leather, heated seats, memory seating, heated mirrors...
- It should get better gas mileage
- It should be easier to get in and out of

If you then instruct the design team to answer the market demands, you'll:

- Make the B and C pillars smaller and the windshield angle steeper
- Make it wider and lower with stiffer springs
- Option it up to $40k
- Wind tunnel it to death, kill the power...
- Lower it... more

And in the end, something great will have been killed by "perceived" market demands. This is an all too common thing. Remember the RX7? How 'about the Celica Supra, the Camaro, the CJ, the Land Crusier... oh, sorry about that last one ;)

Please don't water this one down. We don't need an other RAV, Highlander, 4Runner. Making it better doesn't have to mean making it more appealing to everyone. No need to cannibalize the above SUV's share anyway right.
 

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Right on the Money!!!
 

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If you ask Consumer Reports... if you ask the "average" American... if you ask 8 random SUV drivers willing to show up to a focus group for $125 and some M&Ms... You'll hear:

- It needs better visibility
- It should handle better on the street
- It should have leather, heated seats, memory seating, heated mirrors...
- It should get better gas mileage
- It should be easier to get in and out of

If you then instruct the design team to answer the market demands, you'll:

- Make the B and C pillars smaller and the windshield angle steeper
- Make it wider and lower with stiffer springs
- Option it up to $40k
- Wind tunnel it to death, kill the power...
- Lower it... more

And in the end, something great will have been killed by "perceived" market demands. This is an all too common thing. Remember the RX7? How 'about the Celica Supra, the Camaro, the CJ, the Land Crusier... oh, sorry about that last one ;)

Please don't water this one down. We don't need an other RAV, Highlander, 4Runner. Making it better doesn't have to mean making it more appealing to everyone. No need to cannibalize the above SUV's share anyway right.
+1:clap:

:wave: naysayers!!

I love the FJ!

With that being said, now it's my turn. If something needs to be changed at all let's K.I.S.T(Keep It Simple Toyota) just put some more capable tires on it.:rocker:
 

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I would go for that as well, but probably not as agressive as some would want. Factory tires are notorious for being lame. Ron

+1:clap:

:wave: naysayers!!

I love the FJ!

With that being said, now it's my turn. If something needs to be changed at all let's K.I.S.T(Keep It Simple Toyota) just put some more capable tires on it.:rocker:
 

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Hit the nail on the head! :bigthumb:
 

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/signed agree
 

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x100 I heart FJ as-is. No ifs ands or buts
 

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I agree...dont kill it for stuff that are not a serious issue....

This is primarily an offroad vehicle...as such it is not expected to ride as nicely, handle as nicely, have all the creature comforts, nor keep your coffee warm for you on the ride to the mall as some other SUVs on market currently.

Rear Visibility- yep it is restricted but guess what...ANY vehicle with rear mounted tire, or a rear mounted rack with coolers, or even some of the ones without are going to have poor rear visibility. Honda has a little SUV...worse rear vis than FJ. If you cant learn to use your mirrors properly and dont want to spend the extra on the rear sonar for backing up and parking....then maybe the FJ is not the best vehicle for you.

Front Visibility- I think they say the avg height is 5'9" for a man and 5'4" for a woman...I am nearly 6'3" and have not had any problem seeing traffic lights. I have the adjustable driver seat controls with mine as low as it goes....it is slid back where my wrists comfortably sit on top of steering wheel when outstretched...and no problems. I also know not to pull up past white line or directly under it....so I stop about 6 feet back from line if possible. Flat windshields will do that to you....especially when giving the driver and passenger sufficient leg room and the dash is filled with A/C ducting, airbags, electronics, etc while also affording good headroom for taller drivers. Once again...if seating position is not setup to where you can safely drive the vehicle...maybe FJ is not good for you. I spend less than 5 minutes a week being the FIRST car in a line of traffic at a city stop light where I might have to move my neck an inch more than normal to see a light...but cant think of a time where I thought this. 5 minutes of being the first car at a very high and very close traffic light...maybe...is nothing compared to the rest of the time I spend in FJ driving to work or wheeling.

Rubber floor and sparse comforts inside- It is a offroad vehicle people....has everyone forgot what a real offroad vehicle is like. no carpet as it just holds sand and mud and water more. why do you need 12 cup holders when usually only have one person in FJ...maybe 2...and rear seats have area to actually hold water bottles.

Suspension and Tires- I like mods....the suspension is just fine for someone that will only run oem sized tires. I would like it to come with BFG or Bridgestone All Terrains STANDARD rather than all season tires.

Gas Tank size- every Jeep I have owned and truck up until my last Dodge 2500 Cummins had a 17 or 19 gal tank. Dodge had 34 but I paid extra. When you add more tank you run into issues with exhaust clearance, rear end weight distribution which affects suspension and towing capacities when full, and for offroad vehicle once they go as wide as they can then you have to go lower and that means less rear clearance. I think 19g is a good compromise. If you need to go further then that is what jerry cans are made for or do some planning and fill up before you decide to go that extra 200 miles in the desert. :)

MPG- well the engine is plenty economical...that is not the problem. We have a boxy vehicle with a flat windshield...that is what affect gas mileage off the dealer lot. Then we add bigger tires which can increase tire rotational weight 20-40 pounds...and that is the real killer. you want good gas mileage...dont upgrade tires to larger size...dont add heavy front and rear bumpers and skids...dont put it into 4H or 4L......or buy a Jeep Liberty.

Diesel- well I have had both...love diesel..especially since it is easier to find pumps now...I do not like the current price of diesel as when I had my last it started at less than REGULAR and now is 60-80cents higher than PREMIUM. Yes it creates more energy per gallon than gas....engines run better under load....gives better mileage...but cost of engines are significantly higher and cost of fuel now offsets those other reasons in my opinion. Gas is easiest form to find worldwide...and our FJ while runs best on Premium can run down to 87 with no problems which makes it universally accepted at gas pumps anywhere....on Expedition or Wheeling Adventures both. Would take both but fine with gas...

Suicide Doors- Two door vehicles have limitations especially when lift with being able to get into back seats. Full size rear doors are heavy and require a longer body style for most part unless you remove rear cargo as well. The suicide doors are great for their purpose....very easy to get items in and out of back seat...including kids in my opinion. It is harder to put in car seat...but if you leave it there and just add kids as necassary it is easy in my opinion. I love them...it is also something that allows extra access without making our FJ another mall driver. Keep the doors as is....maybe add pop out windows in them for ventilation....but I like them.

Rear glass slider or other- Rear window is fine with me...I never use it and go through door for everything. Most people cant reach in anyhow once they lift and put tires on. If you want to ride around with it open for dogs....that is fine too...not seeing where a power or sliding rear is really that much better given the amount of time I have wanted to have it down. Is the manual release really that hard for you guys...? I say leave it alone....power makes door heavier.....and slide makes it less secure as very easy to break into.



so after my diatribe and pontification what is my bottom line..... The FJ Cruiser (soon to be known as FJ120 in some circles :) ) is a throwback to the old FJ40...the Willys....the old CJ5...the International Scouts. It is a very, very capable offroad platform with more than enough creature comforts to use it as daily driver. DO NOT water it down and make it a urban crawler for malls and soccer fields that can maybe do offroading if wanted. There are other vehicles out there that meet all the requirements everyone is asking for .....4Runner, RAV, Highlander, Jeep Liberty, H3, Dodge Durango, Nissan Pathfinder, Nissan XTerra, Range Rover...........some are less capable than FJ and some are double the price.

I dont think you can find another as capable 4wd vehicle for the price of an FJ.....

The FJ is not for everyone....and I like it that way. Dont change it....keep it like it is. There are many other options for you that want more comfort, more visibility, more gas mileage, for less money. There are few if any other options for us that want a good and reliable offroad vehicle that is a formidable platform straight from showroom floor except the Jeep Rubicon. You got choices.....hopefully Toyota sticks with their proven and well received design and does nto try to make it something for EVERYONE....as it never works and you end up with what the current Landcruisers and such are today.

sorry for rant....:cowfrown:
 

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OK, So, this is kinda of weird,

Brock how did you get into my mind and say the exact things I would have said.. Did we have a Volcan Mind Meld and I didn't know about it... :lol:


Amen Brother, Leave the FJ120 as it is and let us have the fun which it was ment to have...

I wouldn't change a thing, except the mods I have already done and are going to do in the future... .


:cheers:
 

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:bump:

i agree X's 1 million...

now here's real question, you got M&Ms? :ninja:
 

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WTF? Focus group it to death?

While I love my FJ, there are a number of things we can do to make the product better, sell better, perform better, etc. The following changes deserve serious consideration and probably implementation on either the Second Gen FJ or ASAP. And the standard or optional improvements MUST be kept within a reasonable price range.

1. The MPG must come up, significantly, while the level of octane needed in the fuel must come down, WITHOUT a significant dent in HP or torque (e.g., engineer the power plant for greater efficiency, improve aerodynamics, etc.).

2. A strong, V6 hybrid option should be available to both reduce gas mileage and increase the offroading expedition distance ranges.

3. Visibility must improve, particularly in almost all areas behind the driver.

4. The front windshield needs an increased slant of about 10 degrees to reduce rock chips, cracks, etc.

5. The fit and finish need improvement, i.e., bring it up to normal Toyota levels of quality while maintaining the rugged look (no damn leather, heated seats, or any of that ****).

6. The plasticy "space age," "1980s Battlestar Galactica" look of the interior dash, especially the sides of the dash, should go back to the 80s.

7. The skid plates need to be at least 1/10" thick, rust-resistant (if not stainless steel), high quality steel, and more coverage (e.g., over the T-Case and underlying exhaust pipe at the T-Case, the lower links, the rear shock mounts, the gas tank - steel 1/8" think steel, not plastic, etc.)

8. Increased factory ground clearance is a MUST (e.g., at least one inch), with no rake or only a slight rake re the front suspension.

9. Real offroad (e.g., MTs, XTs), or at least rugged AT 33" tires should come as a reasonably priced option. And the standard tires should be REAL AT tires, none of that 2007 Dunlop tripe.

10. The front and rear bumpers need a shave to provide increased approach angles, especially the trailer hitch.

11. A true roll cage, optional or standard, is sorely needed either on the inside of the cab or under the interior materials of the cab.

12. A factory-installed Warn Winch (with at least two winch options) should come as an option, included with an upgraded battery and, perhaps, an upgraded alternator for better winch operations.

13. The plastic and/or rubber cladding, mud flaps, wheel well covers, etc., need better attachments (e.g., no clips... anywhere... all screws, nuts, or bolts) and increased durability.

14. The available options packages and options need a serious reduction in price, as they are currently unreasonable.

15. An easier, lower, more durable, usable opening back window is needed for realistic access.

16. The headlight adjustments should be made much easier and more accessible... no dealer adjustments required.

17. The marker lights on the mirror either need to get brighter so that one can actually use them, or go away.

18. The dashboard on the passenger side has tons of empty space inside that reduces front leg room; this is an easy fix.

19. Factory option rock rails should extend out far enough to actually protect the vehicle's body and quarter panels by moving the FJ out of harms way.

20. Optional GPS System should allow for better integration into the dash and be affordable, i.e., comparable to aftermarket systems.

Follow this list, and the Second Gen FJ will still fly off the showroom floors, even if most SUVs (e.g., Hummers) are going the way of the Dodo Bird! :rocker:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
WTF? Focus group it to death?
And ^ now we have our $40,000 "optioned up" Gen-2 in process... one step closer to cancellation.

Do you know why the CJ survived 40 years? They kept it simple and cheap. It had tons of problems such as...
- Low ground clearance
- no skid plates (okay one)
- Terrible HVAC
- Terrible mpg
- Terrible audio
- No power options
- The list goes on...

But - and it's a big but - the price was right. Guys (yeah, mostly guys) could afford to buy them and modify them. They could modify them as they wanted to. Not as a TRD team thought everyone would want.

Seriously, look at your list ^ and be realistic about what would happen to the price when you add all those "improvements".

I would rather buy the FJ (again) for $26,500 and put $4,000 of MY mods on it... I'm sure the guys at TRD are great guys. But they don't me like I do.
 
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