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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
:: removed for the sake of the event :::
 

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Please scoot over on that band wagon. My post regarding the summit "dissap........
 

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I'll be there before during and after. I like it there and I already planned my trip a month after we left last year so I'll see ya round town Spin!
 

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I"ll be bailing on the summit too.... will go to ouray when the kid goes back to CU in august instead.
 

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it's unfortunate that something that doesn't involve any of us.... nor does it change the summit... can change a person's mind. It's an automotive rally/event.... why can't we just have fun and enjoy everyone's company?
 

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There will be other things going on. The community is rather large and not exclusive the this forum. Colorado is a free state and everyone has the same opportunity to run trails, etc.. There's Moab, Sedona, Flag, lots of stuff is being discussed by FJ'ers.. Possibly do any combination of everything! Cheers.. Ron
 

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for me it doesnt offer a return on the cost. I can go anywhere anytime and have the same great time. I've never been able to get a meal, i've been dropped from every run I signed up for, never purchased from a vendor on site, or anything else.

Great for others i'm sure, but i've talked to quite a few from break off groups I've met and made runs with that just weren't feeling it.
Expressing this i'm sure will again be erased and warranted as "bad apple".
No, I've been twice and they both sucked.

Buy Demello!
 

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We also will most likely not be there this year. The guns and drinking at last years event were a turn off for it a as a familiy event.
I hope you DO attend daToy!

The guns daToy is referring to were several attendees legally wore their sidearms at some of the functions. Frankly, it was a bit of a surprise for everyone. Each of these attendees were good citizens and put the arms away when alcohol was present. Although within their rights, we will be asking attendees to rethink this practice this year since this made some people uncomfortable.

As far as drinking, yes, alcohol is served in the hotel grounds and we had only a few minor incidents of rowdiness. Nothing out of control and nothing beyond what you expect at an off-road event. Again, we will pay close attention to keep this a family friendly event

FJSummit prohibits any alcohol on the trail, streets and sidewalks. Period.

Unique to the off road community, FJSummit is a terrific family event. please visit: FJSummit2008 for Kristin's terrific photos of the family fun and FJSummit Headquarters environment
 

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Tim it is a great family event, minus the side arm carrying on the grounds where the tent and vendors were located, beer or no beer present.

The gentleman that was open caryring, was standing right in the middle of the Children during the Children give away (with side arm) and many of us were also standing around drinking beer. I was not comfortable with it, nor was my wife. Since I do not know this individual, I don't know if he is cool under pressure or a hot head, trained with his side arm or not trained. But me not knowing him is not the issue, there are 600 other attendees, as well.

Does the Ouray Summit event have proper insurance to cover an accidental hand gun going off in the vendor area?

The trails are mild in comparison to many events and the town is very tame. So seeing a side arm at a family event was a bit off putting, given the level of danger present.

I spoke to many TLCA present and past board members, after the event last year. Open carry at the tent area for any reason, was perceived as silly. Furthermore, they have never had anyone open carry at any TLCA sanctioned event before. Except on the rare occcasion, while someone was hiking trail in a remote area of the Rubicon last year. But even still, the TLCA asks folks to not bring guns to Rubithon.

Many TLCA members do have concealed weapons in their vehicles and keep them out of site, at all times.

Rising Sun has been putting on the Cruise Moab event for over 10 years and never had anyone open carry. Many have their side arms quietly tucked away in their vehicle, where no one knows about it but them.

The Rising Sun 4x4 club takes lead driver roles very serious, as well. I was told that any group I am leading for Rising Sun, where someone is wearing a side arm, I have the right to tell them to put that away in their vehicle or leave the group.

So I have offered to lead groups at the Ouray Summit, what is your policy going to be for open carry side arms while on trails, have you discussed this internally?

I believe that while it may be someone's right to open carry in certain parts of Colorado, the Ouray Summit is a private event and those that put on the private event have a right to allow someone to participate or not based on following their rules.

We will attend this year but if the soft touch approach to this issue, is not effective. We will not be back.

p.s. I plan on purchasing a side arm and will take classes for safe use. I will not bring it to Ouray. I plan on having it with me, only for the most remote expeditions. I don't perceive the fire road between Ouray and Telluride to be remote enough for me to exercise my right to open carry or conceal.
 

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This year I'll be attending with my 3 children... it will be a blast!
 

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In as much as I respect those who don't understand or know the laws which regulate concealed or open carry within the states they travel to, it is important to know that restricting said rights can cause problems.

If the organizing group for this year's summit plan on circumventing the laws of CO regarding firearms, it would be well advised to make that clear on the registration forms so that there are no surprises and people can decide if they want to participate and support an event that has made such a decision.

What alarms me is the negative assumptions made by some that someone who chooses to exercise their right to open carry, might be a "nut" and crack, that this person's mental sanity is open to question because they have a firearm on their hip. Why this leap of fear and uncertainty exists is a mystery to me. I wonder if the Summit committee has proper insurance if someone were to go nuts with a Hi-lift jack handle and start bashing people in the head, I could see that happening way before someone going on a shooting rampage.

The Rising Sun 4x4 club takes lead driver roles very serious, as well. I was told that any group I am leading for Rising Sun, where someone is wearing a side arm, I have the right to tell them to put that away in their vehicle or leave the group.
Chris - with all due respect, I don't believe this statement. Unless Rising Sun posted this restriction within their registration, the individual whim of a trail leader could not arbitrarily decide to kick someone out of a TLCA sanctioned event because they have a personal agenda to pursue. As long as the individual is acting lawfully, one would have no reason to make this request other than pushing their own agenda. This would be no different than, if I were acting as a trail leader, decided that I didn't like the way your child seat was buckled in the vehicle and that it was listed on Consumer Reports as not acceptable, felt it was unsafe and told you that you couldn't participate with that. You could argue that it is "legal" and you are not breaking any laws by doing it that way. I'd get to say..."too bad, I'm the trail leader and I say no, you can't come", I'm sure you would be fine with that, right?

The fact is that, as has been discussed in previous threads about the trails in Ouray...they are public roadways and as long as the laws are being followed, one can't supersede said laws at the whim of the organizers.

I also question your statement that:

they have never had anyone open carry at any TLCA sanctioned event before.
I frankly don't believe that. In fact, we know that's not the case since we both saw people we both know who were doing so at Rubithon '08.

Now, I can see making a request, asking respectfully to secure their firearm in the vehicle but if they refused, I don't see what recourse a trail leader would have. I don't see anywhere on this year's Rubithon registration form nor last year's where any mention of firearms are made. Did it really cause you concern to see Jason walking the trail with his holster/firearm on?

I guess I did well since you apparently didn't know I was carrying also and will continue to so as long as I'm doing it legally and within my rights as a citizen of the country...
 

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In as much as I respect those who don't understand or know the laws which regulate concealed or open carry within the states they travel to, it is important to know that restricting said rights can cause problems.

If the organizing group for this year's summit plan on circumventing the laws of CO regarding firearms, it would be well advised to make that clear on the registration forms so that there are no surprises and people can decide if they want to participate and support an event that has made such a decision.

What alarms me is the negative assumptions made by some that someone who chooses to exercise their right to open carry, might be a "nut" and crack, that this person's mental sanity is open to question because they have a firearm on their hip. Why this leap of fear and uncertainty exists is a mystery to me. I wonder if the Summit committee has proper insurance if someone were to go nuts with a Hi-lift jack handle and start bashing people in the head, I could see that happening way before someone going on a shooting rampage.



Chris - with all due respect, I don't believe this statement. Unless Rising Sun posted this restriction within their registration, the individual whim of a trail leader could not arbitrarily decide to kick someone out of a TLCA sanctioned event because they have a personal agenda to pursue. As long as the individual is acting lawfully, one would have no reason to make this request other than pushing their own agenda. This would be no different than, if I were acting as a trail leader, decided that I didn't like the way your child seat was buckled in the vehicle and that it was listed on Consumer Reports as not acceptable, felt it was unsafe and told you that you couldn't participate with that. You could argue that it is "legal" and you are not breaking any laws by doing it that way. I'd get to say..."too bad, I'm the trail leader and I say no, you can't come", I'm sure you would be fine with that, right?

The fact is that, as has been discussed in previous threads about the trails in Ouray...they are public roadways and as long as the laws are being followed, one can't supersede said laws at the whim of the organizers.

I also question your statement that:



I frankly don't believe that. In fact, we know that's not the case since we both saw people we both know who were doing so at Rubithon '08.

Now, I can see making a request, asking respectfully to secure their firearm in the vehicle but if they refused, I don't see what recourse a trail leader would have. I don't see anywhere on this year's Rubithon registration form nor last year's where any mention of firearms are made. Did it really cause you concern to see Jason walking the trail with his holster/firearm on?

I guess I did well since you apparently didn't know I was carrying also and will continue to so as long as I'm doing it legally and within my rights as a citizen of the country...
I was going to try to make it this year, but now I see what it is becoming, and I think I'll hold off. Because I'm turned off.

The idea of FJ Summit "LAWS" is just out of line. Asking is one thing...
Now, I might not have a lot of posts on the forum, but I have been reading it all from the first summit, and I just can't get over the change over three years. The thing is so political that now one of the real "founders" of it, will not even go? Whats up with that.
When you get a lot of 4x4 truck drivers in one place, you will have some head butting. Thats life. Move on. Come to Sturgis on a Harley, it is a blast, but you will see some attitude from time to time. The rule is, if you don't like me, don't hang with me.
The fact is that at no time is, or will the summit be liable for the actions of the people that show up. The real law, is the law. You might have rights as an American, but please remember, so do I.
I thought the Summit would be fun for my wife and I, but I think I'm just better off not going. I can't stand politics on my "off" time.
 

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We are taking this seriously. Last year, we immediately checked with Ouray Authorities and hotel management about the side arm issue. They acted accordingly and, I believe, within the law and the rights of all parties involved. ( property owner, police, attendees and those carrying side arms). I can report that significant attention was paid to this unforeseen issue. Since then, I have read this and several other threads regarding this issue and have a pretty good understanding of the concerns and wishes of the many persons involved.

Based on the above. We will have a clear policy ( soft or hard) regarding this issue for this 2009 event. Trail leaders will have clear knowledge of our policy. We will publish this on the FJSummit website as soon as we can. And it is true, ultimately any enforcement of laws is up to the Local Authorities.

We don't want people uncomfortable and we don't want to step on legal rights. It's a bit tough , but thankfully, my opinion is quite neutral regarding these matters. So I can say I am in the middle. Hopefully we can also make suggestions and encourage behavior that is agreeable to all. If we work together as a community, hopefully not only rights, but also wishes will be satisfied.
 

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Carrying a gun is cheaper than the pills "Bob" sells on late night tv. :rofl:
 

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Tim it is a great family event, minus the side arm carrying on the grounds where the tent and vendors were located, beer or no beer present.

The gentleman that was open caryring, was standing right in the middle of the Children during the Children give away (with side arm) and many of us were also standing around drinking beer. I was not comfortable with it, nor was my wife. Since I do not know this individual, I don't know if he is cool under pressure or a hot head, trained with his side arm or not trained. But me not knowing him is not the issue, there are 600 other attendees, as well.

Does the Ouray Summit event have proper insurance to cover an accidental hand gun going off in the vendor area?

The trails are mild in comparison to many events and the town is very tame. So seeing a side arm at a family event was a bit off putting, given the level of danger present.

I spoke to many TLCA present and past board members, after the event last year. Open carry at the tent area for any reason, was perceived as silly. Furthermore, they have never had anyone open carry at any TLCA sanctioned event before. Except on the rare occcasion, while someone was hiking trail in a remote area of the Rubicon last year. But even still, the TLCA asks folks to not bring guns to Rubithon.

Many TLCA members do have concealed weapons in their vehicles and keep them out of site, at all times.

Rising Sun has been putting on the Cruise Moab event for over 10 years and never had anyone open carry. Many have their side arms quietly tucked away in their vehicle, where no one knows about it but them.

The Rising Sun 4x4 club takes lead driver roles very serious, as well. I was told that any group I am leading for Rising Sun, where someone is wearing a side arm, I have the right to tell them to put that away in their vehicle or leave the group.

So I have offered to lead groups at the Ouray Summit, what is your policy going to be for open carry side arms while on trails, have you discussed this internally?

I believe that while it may be someone's right to open carry in certain parts of Colorado, the Ouray Summit is a private event and those that put on the private event have a right to allow someone to participate or not based on following their rules.

We will attend this year but if the soft touch approach to this issue, is not effective. We will not be back.

p.s. I plan on purchasing a side arm and will take classes for safe use. I will not bring it to Ouray. I plan on having it with me, only for the most remote expeditions. I don't perceive the fire road between Ouray and Telluride to be remote enough for me to exercise my right to open carry or conceal.
You do realize attendees chances of a mechanical failure or driver error while on one of these beautiful trails could much more easily lead to death than any accidental discharge, right?

You also realize that one of the attendees is FAR more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to or the way home from Summit as well, right?

Needless worry to say the least....statistically speaking anyway. I just find it odd what some people choose to fear.

I agree about the event though....if the EVENT STAFF makes a rule that says no firearms....then they can bar people who violate that rule from participating in the event activities....but they can't bar them from using the trails on public lands or bar them from using any public area where firearms are legally allowed.

Sean
 

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In as much as I respect those who don't understand or know the laws which regulate concealed or open carry within the states they travel to, it is important to know that restricting said rights can cause problems.

If the organizing group for this year's summit plan on circumventing the laws of CO regarding firearms, it would be well advised to make that clear on the registration forms so that there are no surprises and people can decide if they want to participate and support an event that has made such a decision.

What alarms me is the negative assumptions made by some that someone who chooses to exercise their right to open carry, might be a "nut" and crack, that this person's mental sanity is open to question because they have a firearm on their hip. Why this leap of fear and uncertainty exists is a mystery to me. I wonder if the Summit committee has proper insurance if someone were to go nuts with a Hi-lift jack handle and start bashing people in the head, I could see that happening way before someone going on a shooting rampage.



Chris - with all due respect, I don't believe this statement. Unless Rising Sun posted this restriction within their registration, the individual whim of a trail leader could not arbitrarily decide to kick someone out of a TLCA sanctioned event because they have a personal agenda to pursue. As long as the individual is acting lawfully, one would have no reason to make this request other than pushing their own agenda. This would be no different than, if I were acting as a trail leader, decided that I didn't like the way your child seat was buckled in the vehicle and that it was listed on Consumer Reports as not acceptable, felt it was unsafe and told you that you couldn't participate with that. You could argue that it is "legal" and you are not breaking any laws by doing it that way. I'd get to say..."too bad, I'm the trail leader and I say no, you can't come", I'm sure you would be fine with that, right?

The fact is that, as has been discussed in previous threads about the trails in Ouray...they are public roadways and as long as the laws are being followed, one can't supersede said laws at the whim of the organizers.

I also question your statement that:



I frankly don't believe that. In fact, we know that's not the case since we both saw people we both know who were doing so at Rubithon '08.

Now, I can see making a request, asking respectfully to secure their firearm in the vehicle but if they refused, I don't see what recourse a trail leader would have. I don't see anywhere on this year's Rubithon registration form nor last year's where any mention of firearms are made. Did it really cause you concern to see Jason walking the trail with his holster/firearm on?

I guess I did well since you apparently didn't know I was carrying also and will continue to so as long as I'm doing it legally and within my rights as a citizen of the country...

You should believe it. The ASA4WDC (AZ State Assoc. of 4WD Clubs) let trail leaders decide if guns were allowed for AZ State Jamboree on public lands. Mesa 4Wheelers was the same way. If you didn't like it, you didn't participate. I never ran into this being any issue as no one I've ever wheeled with has had such a gross misunderstanding of firearms.....

To quote Sigmund Frued: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity". :)

Sean
 

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You should believe it. The ASA4WDC (AZ State Assoc. of 4WD Clubs) let trail leaders decide if guns were allowed for AZ State Jamboree on public lands. Mesa 4Wheelers was the same way. If you didn't like it, you didn't participate. I never ran into this being any issue as no one I've ever wheeled with has had such a gross misunderstanding of firearms.....

To quote Sigmund Frued: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity". :)

Sean
I can only assume that there was some sort of advance notification that said policy was in place? I'd have a problem if I paid to be at an event then a such a policy was announced after I had paid, travelled and spent money on accommodations then get Diane Feinstein as a trail leader, you'd have to lock up your firearm or go home? No fun there...
 

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I can only assume that there was some sort of advance notification that said policy was in place? I'd have a problem if I paid to be at an event then a such a policy was announced after I had paid, travelled and spent money on accommodations then get Diane Feinstein as a trail leader, you'd have to lock up your firearm or go home? No fun there...
She would be sure to announce to everyone where it was locked up though...........

:lol:
 
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