[jchaps_07_trd_se]

I just purchased a 2007 TRD SE with 165k miles for $9.5k knowing it would need some repairs to the engine, because the owner was not performing regularly maintenance over his 3 years of ownership (3 oil changes over 35k miles). Although, he did make some significant repairs:

Timing Chain replaced ('20)
Rear Diff replaced (2020)

I had a pre-purchase inspection done at the local Toyota dealership, and they said the timing chain looked new but does appear to be slightly loose again and noted there was a noise coming from the top of the engine too. After purchasing, I took my FJ to a local mechanic for a thorough inspection and he said we could either 1) tear apart the existing engine to replace the timing chain and determine what the ticking is at the cylinder heads or 2) replace the engine with a used or rebuilt engine.

The mechanic is currently flushing all the fluids since those likely haven't been changed in awhile, and the oil was dark in the differential. I'm planning to do my own minor repairs: calipers, rotors, brakes, struts, LCA, etc. Other than all that, my first FJ drives great

Here's my question, I was surprised that the mechanic then said it wouldn't be worthwhile to rebuild since we don't know everything that's wrong with it, so he recommended replacing with a salvaged engine (same spec) with 121k miles for $12k (includes replacing oil sear, oil pan, water pump, spark plugs, and valve cover gaskets). Oof! I called another shop that installs Jasper Engines, and they quoted me $10k for the Jasper engine & install out the door. Now I'm at a crossroads:

1. Rebuild existing engine (unknown cost and need to find mechanic)
2. Replace with salvaged
3. Replace with rebuilt
4. Call it quits and sell this to someone more handy than me

I'd prefer to do #1, because it seems like this engine should still have some lift in it and the salvaged price is WAY more than I thought. I'm ok with #3, but I was hoping to keep a Toyota engine in this vehicle. I'd prefer to not sell since I purchased this vehicle knowing the rarity of the '07 TRD SEs and how great condition ones have sold for a lot on auction sites. Even with these repairs, I think I'll still be close to breaking even? I've always loved FJs, so my plan was to use this as my daily and enjoy a vehicle that's amazing to drive and doesn't depreciate significantly.

TL;DR: My engine is unhappy. I need advice on if I should try to save her, break up with her for a salvaged or rebuilt engine, or just say goodbye to FJ life for now.

 

[Swfltoyomafia]

Don’t say goodbye. Find a good mechanic and get the work done. I just rebuilt most of my motor. Timing chain will be done this spring. 300k and runs like new. Yours has a lot of life to give. Run Amsoil oil in her the next fluid swap also everywhere else if you get to it.

 

[Iconic_]

Find somebody who knows the 1GRFE motor in your area. 12k mile oil changes if using a good quality synthetic and replacing the filter are not going to necessarily kill the motor. Plenty of folks go 10k mile intervals, it says so on the bottle. 😂 Do you really think there is something wrong based on the noise you are hearing? Or is it just the usual 1GRFE "ticking" noise that all these engines make?

Send an oil sample off to Blackstone Labs and they can tell you the current state of the motor.

How could they tell the timing chain "looked new"? There is a timing chain tensioner window that can be removed to check how far the tensioner has moved but i dont think you can see the chain itself. If the work was done right the timing chain tensioner shouldn't have moved in 35k miles.

 

[norm356]

The hard thing about an engine you know has been badly abused is the damage internally could be worse than normal. For instance, if the rings have built up carbon they could take out a cylinder badly enough it couldn't be honed and re-ringed (scrap). If the recently replaced timing chain has only 35k miles on it and there truly is sign its worn again, that soon, that would be hard to do and could be a sign of really, really bad internal state of affairs.

Is there any sign of oil consumption between oil changes? If not, that would speak well to the state of the cylinders.

Perhaps shop around for a used engine at lower cost (how much of that $12k quote is his labor and parts, and how much was the cost to procure the used engine?).

Another idea, for how to decide whether to rebuild or replace, is to do what Iconic suggested and send an oil sample for analysis, and also have your mechanic take photos of your engine with a valve cover off, and of the timing chain tensioner visible through the inspection cover. Share those here for review.

Note that a good condition FJ, purchased for $9.5k + $12k engine replacement is still a reasonable price, all things considered, so long as you plan to run it for some time.


Norm

 

[jchaps_07_trd_se]

Appreciate the thorough responses, and I've never heard of Blackstone Labs. Just ordered the test kit!

I'm going to have the mechanic save some of the oil for the kit, then flush all the fluids and run Amsoil. I'll pursue rebuilding the existing engine depending on Blackstone results.

Regarding the timing chain "looking new," Toyota mechanic removed a cap and used his flashlight to shine a light at a small portion of the chain. I had a hard time seeing what he was referring to or the slight movement he noticed side to side. I agree that it seems odd there would be an issue already.

I assumed the noise at the top of the engine was the typical Toyota "ticking" sound. Is this a good example of that tick noise? @Iconic_

Does anyone know a good 1GRFE mechanic in Nashville?

 

[jchaps_07_trd_se]

The hard thing about an engine you know has been badly abused is the damage internally could be worse than normal. For instance, if the rings have built up carbon they could take out a cylinder badly enough it couldn't be honed and re-ringed (scrap). If the recently replaced timing chain has only 35k miles on it and there truly is sign its worn again, that soon, that would be hard to do and could be a sign of really, really bad internal state of affairs.

Is there any sign of oil consumption between oil changes? If not, that would speak well to the state of the cylinders.

Perhaps shop around for a used engine at lower cost (how much of that $12k quote is his labor and parts, and how much was the cost to procure the used engine?).

Another idea, for how to decide whether to rebuild or replace, is to do what Iconic suggested and send an oil sample for analysis, and also have your mechanic take photos of your engine with a valve cover off, and of the timing chain tensioner visible through the inspection cover. Share those here for review.

Note that a good condition FJ, purchased for $9.5k + $12k engine replacement is still a reasonable price, all things considered, so long as you plan to run it for some time.


Norm

The engine quote is $6.2k @ 121k miles with 18 month parts & labor (up to $75.00/hr.)

I'll have him take those photos today and report back!

 

[Swfltoyomafia]

The engine quote is $6.2k @ 121k miles with 18 month parts & labor (up to $75.00/hr.)

I'll have him take those photos today and report back!

Do you know the history of that motor? Might find yourself in the same boat.

 

[jchaps_07_trd_se]

I don't and that's my concern with salvaged. Seems like I'll be due for a timing chain, etc. in the next 100k miles.

 

[Effief100]

I would not do salvaged engine for sure. Good sound advice on previous post. Send in oil sample to Blackstone Labs.
You might be worrying yourself over nothing. My 2014 has less than 40K miles and it has a small tick. Normal for these engines. I run now Amsoil and it seemed to help quiet the tick. Also you can run 10K mikes with high quality synthetic oil with no worries even though I do change my every 5K mikes.

 

[SpeedRye]

I'd definitely take a look at the chain adjuster through the little port as mentioned. It also might be good to meet up with someone local with an 07-09 to hear what their engine sounds like as a reference. These engines are noisy when they're in good shape.

Any receipts on the timing chain replacement? I'd be interested to know why it was replaced (assuming the shop knows).

 

[iwashmycar]

Yes that video is the normal tick we are referencing. Nothing to worry if its that.

Unless a compression test or otherwise shows a bad engine, I wouldnt jump to conclusions based on the ticking. As noted about its very common on these engines and typically normal (unless its a completely different click.....Id assume you should be able to hear both in that case)

And another note, timing chains are NOT typical 100k mile wear items....many last 3-400k miles / life of the truck.

 

[jchaps_07_trd_se]

Really appreciate the community support and wisdom. Oil sample is being pulled today and all fluids replaced.

Here's the receipt from the timing chain and rear differential. @SpeedRye -- Not a lot of information on why it was replaced other than noise.

I'll see if I can get a video of the ticking noise along with the pictures: 1) chain adjuster through the port and 2) engine photos with valve cover off.

 

[jchaps_07_trd_se]

And here's the report from the mechanic regarding concern over maintenance from '20-'23 and why the timing chain might be an issue:

Timing chains are making noise also there’s a ticking noise in the cylinder heads. The timing chains were replaced on 1/22/2021 according to the invoice that the customer provided. But looks like the previous owner didn’t keep up with oil change maintenance as evidenced by the oil sludge caused from lack of oil changes. See pictures.

Rear Diff:

***Recommend rear differential service. Oil dark. Also has some metal on magnetic differential drain plug. We're flushing the fluids and hoping that solves this.

 

[07FJ6sp3row]

Sludge in the neck filler and cap are common due to condensation build up. If sludge is evident on the rest of the components or when you drain the oil then I’d be worried. Both of my FJs had the sludge on the cap and neck when I purchased them. Cleaned it up and with regular oil changes I have not had any thick build up.

 

[FL19]

Man just reading this stressed me out... over what sounds to me like nothing. I think you're good to go man and I'd wager that engine lasts another 100-150K.

 

[mstingray]

Leakdown test, oil analysis. That'll tell you more about it. If you drove it, it pulls decent on acceleration, doesn't shudder or do anything weird, and there's no smoke or anything that smells sweet, you're probably good. Timing chains aren't a wear item like a timing belt.

Do another oil change (5k/6mo), send another one to blackstone after this one.

 

[iwashmycar]

You absolutely need a new mechanic if citing the freaking oil cap is how he diagnoses sludge in an engine!

That can happen to any vehicle especially during winter!!

Rear diff oil looks like it does when its old....doesnt mean its bad....and the metal on that magnet is normal too (though I thought it was always the drain plug that had the magnet...strange). I guess it depends on the noise

 

[FJtest]

You absolutely need a new mechanic if citing the freaking oil cap is how he diagnoses sludge in an engine!

That can happen to any vehicle especially during winter!!

Rear diff oil looks like it does when its old....doesnt mean its bad....and the metal on that magnet is normal too (though I thought it was always the drain plug that had the magnet...strange). I guess it depends on the noise

Yeah, what's being called 'sludge' in the oil filler neck looks far more like cold-weather condensation than true tar-like engine-killing sludge.

As for the diff magnet, yes, it's normally on the drain plug, but for the photo the mech could have simultaneously removed both the filler and drain plugs to speed oil draining, and is holding only the drain plug.

 

[Sanderhawk]

The engine quote is $6.2k @ 121k miles with 18 month parts & labor (up to $75.00/hr.)

I'll have him take those photos today and report back!

I wonder what the cost is to get your engine rebuilt. 6 grand + seems like a lot of money for an engine with 121,000 miles on it. I could be wrong but I think I would put your money towards a rebuild

 

[JimMorris]

If the body is in good condition and the undercarriage isn't rusted, buy a rebuild. If the body isn't great and the undercarriage is rusty, sell it.