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Discussion Starter #1
Getting ready for a project, remote oil filter. 2013 FJ

Using Baxter Performance parts:

Remote Oil Filter Adapter (Multi-Port): TR-202-BK - https://www.shop.bpadapters.com/TR-202-BK-Cartridge-to-Remote-Adapter-Multi-Port-TR-202-BK.htm

Inverted Remote Oil Filter Mount: RI-101-BK - https://www.shop.bpadapters.com/Inverted-Remote-Oil-Filter-Mount-RI-101-BK.htm

AN10 fittings (5/8 hose), no bends will use swept fittings if necessary.

Found lots of posts on the subject but didn't find where folks were mounting the remote filter. Easy access and short oil lines.

If you've done this I'd appreciate some feedback.. If you haven't, feedback still welcome! :wink

I did see posts by CurbCrawler about possibly manufacturing one but he hasn't logged on since 2017.

Thanks,
Lee
 

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G'Day Lee,
Awesome mate..... glad to see some one doing this at last...
I've considered it several times, but not done it.
The $64 question, where to mount?
Are you considering including a cooler to the mix ?

Cheers
Baz
:blueblob:
 

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The concept is attractive, but is it worth well over $500 to implement?

Would you mount the remote filter in the inverted position?

Would the filter's anti-drainback valve function reliably with the filter inverted?

Also, if installed inverted, the mount provides a "... built-in oil retaining well that contains excess oil during filter removal". A typical spin-on filter can hold almost 1/2 a quart of oil, what happens to the oil trapped in the well? Do you need to suck it out with a turkey baster? Or ??
 

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Discussion Starter #4
G'Day Lee,
Awesome mate..... glad to see some one doing this at last...
I've considered it several times, but not done it.
The $64 question, where to mount?

That IS the question. I have a friend that builds custom cars. I'm sure he'll have an input. Will be doing the work in his shop :grin

Are you considering including a cooler to the mix ?

Not really thinking engine oil cooler. But I'll look at it. Thinking another project for trans cooler.

Cheers
Baz
:blueblob:



The concept is attractive, but is it worth well over $500 to implement?

For me, yes (unless I can come with a lower cost alternative for the Baxter pieces). And I would need a remote drain also. I have no lift and getting under the FJ is not a real possibility anymore and I'm tired of not being able to do a simple oil change :frown

Would you mount the remote filter in the inverted position?

I haven't looked that closely yet for a location. If I could mount non-inverted I would do so. I like filling the filter before installing

Would the filter's anti-drainback valve function reliably with the filter inverted?

Another good question. More research to find a good oil filter that doesn't drain back if using an inverted filter.

Also, if installed inverted, the mount provides a "... built-in oil retaining well that contains excess oil during filter removal". A typical spin-on filter can hold almost 1/2 a quart of oil, what happens to the oil trapped in the well? Do you need to suck it out with a turkey baster? Or ??

How do the 2007-2009 folks do it when they remove the filter? The Baxter part does have a well, doesn't look to hold much.. Funny I do have a turkey baster I used with my Harley :smile
Thanks, more to look into for sure. My last two pickups had remotes due to OEM filter locations. Oil drained right on top of the front diff when removing filter. Plus I used high capacity filters, adds to the total volume of oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@FJtest a question.

The Baxter parts use AN10 fittings. What do you think of this method of connecting the hose to the fittings? AN10 Push Lock. A better way needed?

images1UR4DZCN.jpg
 

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G'Day Lee,
The older spin top OE system has a drain hole with a pipe extension in the cup to allow the excess oil to drain off.... once the filter has been loosened and removed.
For the wife's old Prado, I used to hang a coke bottle under it to catch the excess ....

with regard to a trans cooler... Derale have a twin pipe cooler, that allows two fluids to run thru the aux cooler.... one could be ATF and one Engine oil, or PS fluid.... Might be over kill, but also look at aux coolers that have a fan built on, and use a manual switch to engage the fan at your control....
cooler the better in my book....

:rofl: ..see how easy a easy simple mod ...grows .... :lol::lol:

cheers
Baz
:blueblob:
 

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"How do the 2007-2009 folks do it when they remove the filter?"

Like Baz said, there is an aluminum "cup" built into the filter mount that catches all the oil that runs out of the inverted filter as it is unscrewed. The cup has a little drain hole with a nipple on it that allows you to connect a drain hose and run it down into the oil drain pan.

"The Baxter parts use AN10 fittings. What do you think of this method of connecting the hose to the fittings? AN10 Push Lock. A better way needed?"

I would never consider using slip-on rubber hoses (or any rubber hoses) in the primary oil supply system. I would only use MIL-spec aircraft-quality braided stainless steel hydraulic hoses with integral AN fittings. That's why I said "well over $500", assuming that you are going to pay $50 each for aircraft hoses. Also remember that the earliest 1GR-FE engines had external rubber oil lines supplying oil to the heads. Many of these lines failed, all six quarts of oil were dumped in a very short period of time, and many engines were destroyed. These rubber lines were re-designed as solid metallic tubing parts, and that's what is on your engine now.

Also, one other observation. In the "Gen-1" 1GR-FE with the easy-access, top-mounted filter, the total oil gallery length from the oil pump, up to the filter, then back down again to the crank bearings was at least 4 feet. In the Gen-2 engine with the filter at the lower front of the engine, the total oil gallery length is only a foot or so. How much longer does it take oil to get to the bearings if it has to flow 48" vs 12"? What about at sub-zero temperatures, or when an oil filter's anti-drainback valve slowly leaks and allows all the oil in the galleries to drain back into the oil sump?

Was this the root cause of this major change to the engine's lubrication system?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ponder. {Think about (something) carefully, especially before making a decision or reaching a conclusion.}

And I am thinking. My engineer friend agrees with your opinion of the push locks.

I'm not so much concerned about the $$'s as doing something to harm the engine. If the lines can't be kept short enough and the larger filter mounted normally; so it can be filled before installation, this could be a non-starter. :frown

Just have to see how much room there is for a good installation.

Again, appreciate the input
 

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Having used the push locks, I know for a fact that they work. The pressure is fairly low for that type of line (20-60psi from the mechanical pump and lines are rated at least twice that) and is usually a reinforced oil hose. Knowing that you have options, I would opt for a proper line that is crimped and tested in house. I would use a cheap push lock to mock up and go get the hose made at race/ aircraft shop.

The anti drainback isn't effected as oil filters are mounted any number of ways by manufacturers. If it was an issue, we would see a "standard" mounting direction. I've used several remote filter kits and changing from standard/ inverted position had no effect on long term ownership.

When you do an oil change, there's always left over that cycles into the new stuff. Cleaning out the crevices of the remote mount is nice for piece of mind but just let the filter do the job.

$500 is a small price to pay for convenience and done right will last the entire service life of the vehicle. So $500 over 5 years (hypothetical FJ ownership duration) would be worth it for me. If I had a '10+, I would have enjoyed building a oil cooler/ heat exchanger setup but I think it would have costed over $500 which most FJ owners might agree it's more effective to use that on gas money lol.

Since you're doing it with a friend and you stated that you usually install the filter "wet", I'm sure one of you already know to prime the oil system before startup. Looking forward to the install!
 

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If you are worried about push-lock (or any AN type) hose leaking or failing, then pressure test it before installing. Only $12 or so, cheap insurance IMHO: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AN10-Hose-Test-Fitting,38050.html

If you want a little extra insurance that the hose won't blow off, use the clamps designed for this purpose: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-999160

I've been using push-lock hoses/fittings for several years now. Mainly on EFI conversion fuel systems, which see continues duty at around 70psi. I have had no failures. My go-to brand is Fragola. There are some pushlock hoses available that have an outer covering, to give them some extra strength and abrasion resistance. Those hoses are a B!TCH to press on for smaller sizes like -6 (unless you have the special tool, which I now have) but should be o.k. with -10.

Anyone thinking of running an oil cooler, consider using a thermostatic version if you will be driving it on the street. Something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/irp-fsm-215 will keep your oil hot enough to flash off any moisture (water).

I have a remote filter and an oil temp gauge in my Cobra replica, and I've been shocked at how cool the oil temp stays. I have -10 braided lines on it, and just the length of the hoses and the aluminum remote filter mount act as a cooler. A fulltime cooler will never allow the oil to get to proper temp, in normal driving.
 

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"If you are worried about push-lock (or any AN type) hose leaking or failing, then pressure test it before installing. Only $12 or so, cheap insurance IMHO: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AN10-...ing,38050.html"

The concern isn't the hose/fitting setup failing when new, it's the potential for failure after hundreds or thousands of hours of exposure to external engine bay heat cycling, vibration, hot hydrocarbon liquid flow, etc. Almost all current "rubber" oil lines are a multi-material sandwich of inner liner, woven synthetic fiber reinforcement, and outer jacket. All "barb-type" fittings rely on the mechanical integrity of the hose inner liner to keep the hose attached to the fitting, and the barbs themselves create severe stress risers in the liner.

"If you want a little extra insurance that the hose won't blow off, use the clamps designed for this purpose: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-999160"

The fact that these clamps even exist hint at one of the possible failure modes of this type of hose/fitting system.

Bottom line, you will never see this type of hose/fitting system used in a critical/ high-reliability application, like aircraft use. For me, the potential consequences of a failure resulting in the loss of a $15K engine (crate motor from Toyota) are not worth the savings of $100 vs using stainless-steel AN hoses.
 

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(big snip)
Since you're doing it with a friend and you stated that you usually install the filter "wet", I'm sure one of you already know to prime the oil system before startup. Looking forward to the install!
How do you pre-fill the filter used on an inverted mount, and keep the oil in the filter, as it is screwed onto the mount?

Invert the vehicle?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How do you pre-fill the filter used on an inverted mount, and keep the oil in the filter, as it is screwed onto the mount?

Invert the vehicle?
:smile

Per previous post, plan is to have lines as short as possible and mount filter normally. Have not studied the available filters and how the anti-drain back features work with inverted filters, if at all. Plan to use larger filter. Will NOT mount a large, empty filter..
 

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How do you pre-fill the filter used on an inverted mount, and keep the oil in the filter, as it is screwed onto the mount?

Invert the vehicle?
Please see exhibit A :wink



:smile
Will NOT mount a large, empty filter..
Pre soaking the filter media beforehand and running some oil in the new lines is never a bad idea. The correct method would be to disconnect ignition relay or coil pack connectors / fuel pump relay so you can safely crank the motor to build oil pressure. Then you would verify oil pressure is present via the remote mount or pressure sensor.
 

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The concern isn't the hose/fitting setup failing when new, it's the potential for failure after hundreds or thousands of hours of exposure to external engine bay heat cycling, vibration, hot hydrocarbon liquid flow, etc. Almost all current "rubber" oil lines are a multi-material sandwich of inner liner, woven synthetic fiber reinforcement, and outer jacket. All "barb-type" fittings rely on the mechanical integrity of the hose inner liner to keep the hose attached to the fitting, and the barbs themselves create severe stress risers in the liner.

The fact that these clamps even exist hint at one of the possible failure modes of this type of hose/fitting system.

Bottom line, you will never see this type of hose/fitting system used in a critical/ high-reliability application, like aircraft use. For me, the potential consequences of a failure resulting in the loss of a $15K engine (crate motor from Toyota) are not worth the savings of $100 vs using stainless-steel AN hoses.
The NHRA and IHRA approve them https://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/Pushlock-hose.html
Every one of the aftermarket EFI companies (Edelbrock, FAST, Holley, et al) supply these fittings and hoses with their kits.

If we want FAA-level reliability, then we will not even be doing such modifications to our vehicles.

I was also dubious of the push-on hoses, when I first saw them. But, after not seeing any failures for a few years, finally tried them. I've been using them for several years, and still haven't seen a failure.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Today I'm driving over to Oil Filter Service in Portland. I've bought adapters, filters and had them make oil lines for my previous two trucks.

Lonnie and Gary have used them for decades. Boats, hot rods, grocery getters etc. Their shop was right down the street, retired now with shops at home :smile I think their building is going to be another brew pub. :grin (its a Portland thing)

https://www.ofsco.net/about-us.html

Most of the fun of this is the research and looking at pieces. You guys and gals are part of that :cheers:

Did he say 'gals' :jawdrop:
 

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Hi Lee,
2 observations:

1) you mention not getting under the vehicle - how do you drain the sump otherwise (please don't say you're going to suck it out the dipstick tube)
2) Toyota's engineers are quite clever. If you're under the vehicle to drain the sump, it's easy to dump the filter at the same time.

No lift, no worries. Either drive the FJ up on ramps, or lie in a trench under the vehicle (or jack & axle stands is another option).

Personally - I pay someone to change the oil & filter, mostly because it takes them 20 minutes and I don't have to get rid of the waste oil & filter, and I get them to grease the zerks, and I do an end to end inspection while it's up on the hoist. The other reason is that I don't have to grovel around in the dirt :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Lee,
2 observations:

1) you mention not getting under the vehicle - how do you drain the sump otherwise (please don't say you're going to suck it out the dipstick tube)

I'm working on that. I did suck the oil out of our boat through the dipstick tube, with a pump. It was designed for that. :grin

2) Toyota's engineers are quite clever. If you're under the vehicle to drain the sump, it's easy to dump the filter at the same time.

Agree. But you won't have to drop the skids to just drain the oil.

No lift, no worries. Either drive the FJ up on ramps, or lie in a trench under the vehicle (or jack & axle stands is another option).

No argument here either. Ramps for the front and jack stands for the rear axle. Bought the ramps so one of my grandsons can do the oil change on his BRZ. Didn't mention grandson before did I? :grin

Personally - I pay someone to change the oil & filter, mostly because it takes them 20 minutes and I don't have to get rid of the waste oil & filter, and I get them to grease the zerks, and I do an end to end inspection while it's up on the hoist. The other reason is that I don't have to grovel around in the dirt :)

I could have written that above statement exactly.. That's how and what's done now... Probably the most convincing statement to talk me out of doing the MOD..
Stopped at Oil Filter Service and talked to the guys. Parts that they use on their commercial accounts. The did say never use clamps on the AN10 push locks, it cuts the hose. The barbs do look sharp along the back edge. They also do the crimped connectors.

The 5/8 hose for the AN10's $6.64 ft 250 psi
Fittings: Straight $14.21 and 90 degree $23.80

Didn't realize how large AN10 and 5/8 hose are:

IMG_1549.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Update:

Talked to Kevin at Baxter Performance. He's a fountain of information. He is sending info on the install on a 4Runner. Also info on filters and drain back valves.

Last time I was at the dealer I checked out the new 4runner and Tacoma. The 4Runner engine/bay looked just like ours, the Tacoma has different engine.

Using the inverted filter mount and priming filter. Pull the ignition fuse and crank to fill. I used to do that with my older vehicles, back then I'd just pull the hot lead off the coil. Things are a little more complicated now :grin

Filter change from under the hood. Still working on the remote drain, electrical valve, protected switch under the hood?? It could work :wink

I do appreciate the feedback and it is all taken into consideration. No decision made, no parts ordered; however, I'm feeling better about the project.

Still gathering info..
 
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