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Paid 28K for a 2011 Iceberg two weeks ago. It was new but a dealer demo...had 1500 miles on it. I believe it was a good deal. I got the extended warranty, bumper to bumper 6 years or 100K miles, for $800. The extended warranty price started much higher, but I kept saying "no I didn't want it" and they kept coming down on the price. Once I realized it was less than $15 per payment I gave in.
 

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PM with the options your wanting and I'll hook you up Adventure. I'm a easy guy to deal with. Not to mention i own a FJ and would love to have another one in town.
 

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I just picked up my 2012 Iceberg FJ 4x4 with Conveniences Package with the Offroad package for 29,500. The dealer didn't have the color I wanted, but got me one within 2 days. I think the key of getting a good price is doing your homework and shop around. Plus it helps to have a friend that works at Toyota, so I got $3000 off msrp, which is about $500 under their invoice. Check out Edmunds.com and see what the market value is around your area. According to the website, my vehicle average market value was around 31,000, which was what another dealer was trying to sell it to me for.
 

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Paid 28K for a 2011 Iceberg two weeks ago. It was new but a dealer demo...had 1500 miles on it. I believe it was a good deal. I got the extended warranty, bumper to bumper 6 years or 100K miles, for $800. The extended warranty price started much higher, but I kept saying "no I didn't want it" and they kept coming down on the price. Once I realized it was less than $15 per payment I gave in.
What packages did it have?
 

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This past Saturday I bought a Desert Sand 2012 4x4 conv. package, off-road package and some other worthless package that included floor mats and emergency kit. Got if for $3K off Msrp. I have been lurking here for over a year, and thanks to this site I knew I could get it for $3K off Msrp. Love the truck and worth the 1+ year wait!
 

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So what are you guys paying for the 2012's I know you are quoting $3,000 off MSRP, but what is that price out the door? Thanks
 

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sometimes you can do all your haggling from the comfort of your computer keyboard. most dealers have an on-line inventory and some kind of internet sales team. you can contact many of them in your region and start collecting quotes until you get the deal you want. I live in Texas, but saved about $3k and found my deal at a dealership near Kansas city!
Even better; once i had the price nailed down, i flew up there, the salesman picked me up at the airport, we signed paperwork, then i had a nice long drive in my new FJ back home.
 

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So what are you guys paying? Is it $26,000? $28,000? $30,000? $33,000? I understand it is $3,000 off MSRP, but what are you seeing as your final out the door price. A 2012 with the off road package and convenience package is selling for X? Can one be bought for $28,000 or less? Are you seeing them sell more along the lines of $30,000 or more? Thanks for your honesty.
 

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OTD? Varies by state. It's pretty basic. I paid $3K below MSRP. So, MSRP was 35,151, with Off-Road, Upgrade, and Conv. Pkgs. OTD varies by state taxes and DMV fees.
 

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Just a rule of thumb, shoot for 10% off MSRP (2nd sticker) you save a few thousand and they make some money. Dealers also get incentives from corporate which increases the wiggle, but you gotta do research to find the info.
Tax is not negotiable(9.5% +/- here)
License / Tabs also not negotiable. Vary by state, county.
In WA your trade in value comes off the taxable cost of the new vehicle.
Extended warranty can alter OTD cost. $0 for no extended. Ive heard the same 7yr 100,000 mile warranty can go from $1200 to $2000. Cant verify, didnt buy it. Point is that it's negotiable. You have to research that.
Loan interest is slightly negotiable, but it helps to be pre-approved from your bank, or better yet Credit Union before you start negotiations. If dealer says they'll finance 6% and you're pre-approved for 2.5% well you get the picture.
Anyway hunted for what I wanted, called the dealers(6) told em what I would pay, got a variety of responses and found two dealerships happy to sell at my price, and chose one.
 

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Long time lurker, and first post, so why not start from the beginning...

I've always shot for MSRP OTD as a goal... with the few vehicles i've purchased (those being two cars and a motorcycle over the years)

When I bought my 2012 Iceberg a couple months ago, I came just short of that goal when I pulled the trigger. I think I could have got a little better deal had I been more patient, but as everyone here says, the enjoyment has been well worth it...

As another data point, here is the specs of my deal...

No Trade-in

2012 Iceberg FJ
- 4X4 Auto
- Convenience Pkg (cruise, back^ cam, remote keyless, pwr mirrors, etc)
- Off-road Pkg (Bilstein's, R-diff locker, A-Trac, Ball gauges)
- 17in Alloy wheels
- Carpet mats (5 pc)
- Running lights

TRUECAR says : (Purchase price)
MSRP = 32320
INVOICE = 30377
DEALER COST = 29823
GREAT PRICE = 30387 or less

I paid 29792 + (Ca) Tax, Title, Lic/Doc fees (Purchase Price)
This price came about with my original offer of $32500 OTD, but I received a $12 refund from DMV which adjusts the OTD figure to $32488.

Just to be clear :
Purchase price is Cost of Vehicle + Options + Dest + TDA (as TrueCar states)
OTD is grand total, nothing further added

No less than (4) other dealers didn't even bother returning my call when I offered $32k even.... so the $32500 was indeed my final no-BS offer... which is how I presented it over the phone...

Prior to calling with the offer, I had Truecar data layed out, as well as actual Reg/Lic fees from the DMV calculator (available on CA's DMV site) I basically coupled those figures, rounded down and began making OTD offers...

When the one dealership finally bit, I just made sure to let them know I would walk out the second I felt like someone was spinning the deal, which they didn't, so it went quite smooth...

As a side note, I had also begun searching for my purchase wanting a BASE model 4x4 with locker to no avail... In retrospect, the cruise control has been extremely handy, and this is the first vehicle i've owned with keyless entry. So I am glad it worked out the way it did... The ONLY thing I would have liked to have saved on, would have to be the Alloys... as I rather like the no-nonsense look of steelies... I figure i'll just pick (4) up if/when I upgrade to some AT's...


Hope the details help, for those who are shopping.... Sorry for being long winded, but during my search for information, I was frustrated with short incomplete information commonly found on price threads like this....
 

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Also a Long time lurker and first post... wow that is pretty low...I just put down a down payment, $500 in a credit card, on a locate for a Iceberg FJ with the same package as yours here in MA for 30,950 before taxes and Tax, Title, Lic/Doc fees. I also feel like they will drag there feet in locating one for me. Does anyone know if I can get my down payment back if they can't acquire the vehicle in a certain time? TIA
 

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Not sure what their policy might be on deposits, maybe someone else has experience there....

You mentioned that you were looking for the same option setup, so I just punched in the Boston, MA. ZIP (02108) in TrueCar with the same settings, and the lowest "Best Price" for your area is actually better than the current "Best Price" in my area...

My area was $29977, where I came in a hundred and change under...
Boston is $29749.... I'm not familiar with the MA area, but according to TrueCar $29749 can be had 18.8 miles from Boston.... so it shouldn't be difficult to find that dealer....

FWIW.... I think various dealerships with varying overheads have considerably different lower limits... For instance, if I change the zip to an area just 50 miles away from me, the Best price goes up by almost $300... Luckily, the best price in my area was only 36 miles away.... That sort of explains why certain dealers wouldn't even counter offer, because they knew the dealership who had the actual car on their lot, also had the lowest "Best price" already....

If you haven't already, check out Truecar, and see if anything pops up within your driving range... Then throw them an offer a couple hundred lower than their "best" price...:cheers:

I found that as soon as you mention TrueCar, Costco, or any type of Fleet program, you end up talking to someone other than the haggling floor guy... And at that point, the numbers should be within a couple hundred bucks of their threshold or lower limit... Some dealers simply do not participate in any buying programs, so it's useless with them, like bouncing numbers off a wall...

The guy I bounced all the numbers off of, was shocked how close they were... especially when I quoted my own DMV/LIC fees.... All he had to do was get the thumbs up from the Fleet manager or whatever...

Truth be told, I don't even have a Costco membership...

What sucks is, two months after I bought the FJ, a flyer in the mail showed up stating $3000 off MSRP... which by Truecar numbers makes it $29320...

Ah well... a few hundred bucks was the cost of having the FJ over the fall season....
 

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whoops... my fault, I opted for the upgraded convenience package instead of the off-road package. I used truecar.com for the lowest price but it led me to dealer that does not have the car in stock. It seems that the dealers around my area have limited stock on the Fjs and the iceberg colors are also hard to come by. I've also experience dealers that wouldn't even counter offer the truecar.com price or come close. But what frustrates me is that I put a deposit on a vehicle locate but the dealer does not know when they can get it to me by.
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
So I started this thread, and after months of searching and haggling, I finally got my perfect FJ. It was equipped with:

CQ
UR
Quicksand coloring
Tow Hitch
Roof Rack
Enhanced door sills
Alarm system

The car was sold to me at dealer cost- OTD price was 36,900. Taxes in my city are 8.75%. Great all around car buying experience from Fred Haas Toyota in Houston! At the moment there are only three 2012 quickies in the gulf states region. That can change but at least I know I won't be seeing many with that color for awhile!
 

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So I started this thread, and after months of searching and haggling, I finally got my perfect FJ. It was equipped with:

CQ
UR
Quicksand coloring
Tow Hitch
Roof Rack
Enhanced door sills
Alarm system

The car was sold to me at dealer cost- OTD price was 36,900. Taxes in my city are 8.75%. Great all around car buying experience from Fred Haas Toyota in Houston! At the moment there are only three 2012 quickies in the gulf states region. That can change but at least I know I won't be seeing many with that color for awhile!
Congrats on the new FJ. However I always find it funny when people claim to pay dealer "cost" as though the dealer keeps the lights on giving vehicles away at cost. 36900.00 OTD definitely let the dealer make some money; if he didn't then he will not be around much longer.
 

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The terms used in car pricing are so convoluted and subjective.... So I agree that terms do not mean much, because it depends upon who gave you the figures, and what "they" labelled them. So IMO about the only thing termed figures are good for, is comparing to one another.

Say for instance, TRUECAR... Are the terms for real? probably not, when you take other things into account... like Overhead, incentives, etc..


Here is what the (2012) Termed figures looked like for my FJ & options :

TOYOTA website - $32145 + TDA
(I assume TDA would be added on top since it is not listed in the breakdown)

TRUECAR (MSRP) - $32320 (Truecar #'s include TDA/Dest)
TRUECAR (INVOICE) - $30378
TRUECAR (COST) - $29823

So lets look at the actual differences :
TrueCar MSRP varies by $175 compared to Toyota (w/o TDA)
Adding a TDA amount of $363 varies that amount by $188 the other direction..

(Basically we can say TrueCar is accurate to within (+/-) $188 in this case.

Now, the difference between INVOICE and Dealer COST of the figures stated by TrueCar in this case is $555

That explains somewhat why an initial offer of $32000 was ignored by most dealerships, and $32500 was accepted by one...

When I asked why that was, the guy said that the Floor salesmen make commission off of the sales price... And the Fleet dept makes bonuses off of the volume of cars they move through the lot by way of quota's....

I'm not saying that makes sense or even that I believe the statement to be true, because I've never been a car salesman.... In my mind, the only term that mattered was the OTD price... I'll often say to the salesman, "Call it whatever you want, but that's all I'm willing to pay... All I need to hear is Yes or No"

At the end of the day, if you put in the time and effort and got the best deal you could within the range you were willing to travel, and within the time you were willing to waste, then it's all good...

Terms and labels for figures used to justify a price will mean different things to different people... So the termed figures above should be taken with a grain of salt.... And only be used as a point of comparison to which you add your area's TTL to arrive at an OTD number which seems right to you as an individual...

When I add my area's TTL to the above figures this is what I get :
TOYOTA (MSRP) - $35413
TRUECAR (MSRP) - $35217
TRUECAR (INVOICE) - $33111
TRUECAR (COST) - $32510
*Based on 7.75% Tax, Reg/TTL which are based on Value (CA), and Fixed doc & other BS that appear on my sales contract...


Does $32488 mean I paid $22 under dealer cost? Probably not...

Did the dealership make money off the deal, Absolutely yes....

If you surrender to "Terms" for figures in the negotiation process, might you end up paying more than you need to? Probably yes....

Do different dealers have varying overhead, quota's, and lower limits? Yes...

Is buying a Vehicle a PITA? Yes....
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Congrats on the new FJ. However I always find it funny when people claim to pay dealer "cost" as though the dealer keeps the lights on giving vehicles away at cost. 36900.00 OTD definitely let the dealer make some money; if he didn't then he will not be around much longer.
You're right about that- and believe me i did plenty of research beforehand right through to the day I purchased (trucar, Edmunds, etc) I don't mind if the salesperson still made a profit- even at dealer cost. I feel it was worth it for the service I received from this dealership and the salesperson that was extremely patient with me. I feel the amount of stress that can accumulate from constantly trying to grind down price takes it's toll eventually.

I know the car game, and I know about holdbacks and hidden incentives, etc, etc. There's not many places though that will offer the price they did around where I live- and on top of it bump me up to a higher credit tier level finance wise as a way to show their appreciation for me driving five hours to purchase a vehicle from them ( I knew what tier I qualified for before financing)

With service like that I am not too concerned what kind of extra profit they made at dealer cost- they earned the hell out of it and I drove away with an amazing car...
 

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Discussion Starter #39
The terms used in car pricing are so convoluted and subjective.... So I agree that terms do not mean much, because it depends upon who gave you the figures, and what "they" labelled them. So IMO about the only thing termed figures are good for, is comparing to one another.

Say for instance, TRUECAR... Are the terms for real? probably not, when you take other things into account... like Overhead, incentives, etc..


Here is what the (2012) Termed figures looked like for my FJ & options :

TOYOTA website - $32145 + TDA
(I assume TDA would be added on top since it is not listed in the breakdown)

TRUECAR (MSRP) - $32320 (Truecar #'s include TDA/Dest)
TRUECAR (INVOICE) - $30378
TRUECAR (COST) - $29823

So lets look at the actual differences :
TrueCar MSRP varies by $175 compared to Toyota (w/o TDA)
Adding a TDA amount of $363 varies that amount by $188 the other direction..

(Basically we can say TrueCar is accurate to within (+/-) $188 in this case.

Now, the difference between INVOICE and Dealer COST of the figures stated by TrueCar in this case is $555

That explains somewhat why an initial offer of $32000 was ignored by most dealerships, and $32500 was accepted by one...

When I asked why that was, the guy said that the Floor salesmen make commission off of the sales price... And the Fleet dept makes bonuses off of the volume of cars they move through the lot by way of quota's....

I'm not saying that makes sense or even that I believe the statement to be true, because I've never been a car salesman.... In my mind, the only term
that mattered was the OTD price... I'll often say to the salesman, "Call it whatever you want, but that's all I'm willing to pay... All I need to hear is Yes or No

At the end of the day, if you put in the time and effort and got the best deal you could within the range you were willing to travel, and within the time you were willing to waste, then it's all good...

Terms and labels for figures used to justify a price will mean different things to different people... So the termed figures above should be taken with a grain of salt.... And only be used as a point of comparison to which you add your
area's TTL to arrive at an OTD number which seems right to you as an individual...

When I add my area's TTL to the above figures this is what I get :
TOYOTA (MSRP) - $35413
TRUECAR (MSRP) - $35217
TRUECAR (INVOICE) - $33111
TRUECAR (COST) - $3251
*Based on 7.75% Tax, Reg/TTL which are based on Value (CA), and Fixed doc & other BS that appear on my sales contract...

Does $32488 mean I paid $22 under dealer cost? Probably not...

Did the dealership make money off the deal, Absolutely yes....

If you surrender to "Terms" for figures in the negotiation process, might you end up paying more than you need to? Probably yes....

Do different dealers have varying overhead, quota's, and lower limits? Yes...

Is buying a Vehicle a PITA? Yes....


Well said!! At the end of the day, figure out what price you're willing to accept and stick with that range. Costs vary region to region and doing your homework helps. It will give you some solace knowing you are paying for a quality, capable well- built car.
 
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