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Not many logger supply places in Austin but I will look online to see what I can find. I am liking the thought of less line on the drum with an extension in the back of my FJ to use if needed.

I did speak to Thor at Winchline.com and he said using a steel roller fairlead is prefereable to a hawse fairlead as long as there are not burr marks on the rollers. His suggestion was to pull the rollers and polish them smooth before using the synthetic line.
Did he say as to why?
 

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In addition to getting a quality line it is also recommended to have a 10 foot non-slip lead that makes up the first layer of rope on your drum. You'll also want a protective sleeve that you can slip up and down the line so as to protect the line from things the line might come in contact with (rock, trees). I thought about going to the marine supplier and getting the line for less and doing my own splicing but in the end decide to go with the Masterpull line which was already set with a 28.5k hook. I'd rather pay a little extra and have it all setup and have piece of mind. Save money somewhere else but buy good rope for an experienced company.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Did he say as to why?
He said "because the rollers roll" which provides less friction on the line. He also said that the delray replacement rollers are good but not necessarry. He was very clear that no matter what you use just make sure there is no place that the line will come in contact with sharp edges or splinters.

We did talk about the heat factor and the line that wraps around the drum. What he explained to me is that heat is really only a factor when you are winching someone down a hill which would be going against the brake inside the drum creating heat. If you dont usually winch someone down a hill or if you do, take your time so you dont heat up the drum and you will be ok.

I also spoke to a buddy of mine that was on the TT and he said they ran 3/8" line. They would buy 100' of line and cut the line in half winding 50' on the drum and keep 50' as an extension line in the gear bag. Sounds like a good idea but it aint cheap any way you go. I was considering a 50' 3/8" line with a 50' 5/16" extension line. Not sure what I will do. :cheers:
 

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5/16" line may seem like it is good enough for a 10k winch when you first think about it and as you pointed out it has a higher breaking strength than the winch can pull.
But if we look at a few facts about synthetic lines i think you will see that 3/8' is probably the better option.
At about 85- 90 % of the max pull the inner fibres will start to deteriorate . This in itself is not a huge concern as it is really a minimal occurence but non the less it is a concern .
The greater concern is damage to the line and how this can reduce the overall breaking strength. Fuzzing on the fibres is not detrimental to the rope and it does not weaken it in any way ( the strength is in the inner fibres )
but your rope should be a 12 strand HMPE Fibre and a SKF75 ( SK60 is not preffered )
The problem with running 5/16" is that percentage wise by cutting or damaging the fibres you then start to bring the breaking strain close to your max pull . Dyneema is a tough rope but i use scissors to cut my lengths so it can be damaged fairly easily on sharp objects.
The added insurance of using a heavier line means that even with a full strand broken or damaged you still have much more breaking strain than the 5/16" and repairing it is very simple . you can even make a Fid out of some plastic tube ( hard plastic white tubing is best )
you need to taper the damaged ends so as not to create a hinge when under heavy load and the just put 2 locking loops in and splice 18" - 2'-0" of line into each other and your almost as good as new ( 90% strength )
As for colour between Blue / Pink / Green etc
One is no better than the other it is simply the pigment that is added to the resin at the time of manufacture .
I have had just about every colour you can think of from Black to flourecent green and it is all the same fibres from DSM Industries in the Netherland.
My supplier mainly deals with the logging industry as he is in Ontario. But the same lines are manufactured on both the east and west coast of Canada ( and the US ) for the fishing industry.
One last point i forgot All Dyneema comes in the same colour and it is White the manucturer adds the colour after the fact.
Resins are another important point and the best source for this is Belguim . But resins are another matter entirely and even i get bored talking about them.
Cheers
 

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He said "because the rollers roll" which provides less friction on the line. He also said that the delray replacement rollers are good but not necessarry. He was very clear that no matter what you use just make sure there is no place that the line will come in contact with sharp edges or splinters.

We did talk about the heat factor and the line that wraps around the drum. What he explained to me is that heat is really only a factor when you are winching someone down a hill which would be going against the brake inside the drum creating heat. If you dont usually winch someone down a hill or if you do, take your time so you dont heat up the drum and you will be ok.

I also spoke to a buddy of mine that was on the TT and he said they ran 3/8" line. They would buy 100' of line and cut the line in half winding 50' on the drum and keep 50' as an extension line in the gear bag. Sounds like a good idea but it aint cheap any way you go. I was considering a 50' 3/8" line with a 50' 5/16" extension line. Not sure what I will do. :cheers:
Good to know. I'm not even remotely 'skooled' in the winching dept. I'm actually considering taking a class. Thank you. :D
 

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I also spoke to a buddy of mine that was on the TT and he said they ran 3/8" line. They would buy 100' of line and cut the line in half winding 50' on the drum and keep 50' as an extension line in the gear bag. Sounds like a good idea but it aint cheap any way you go. I was considering a 50' 3/8" line with a 50' 5/16" extension line. Not sure what I will do. :cheers:
IMHO, 50ft is too short. You also run the risk of getting too close to the end of the line. It could be catastrophic if the line slips out of the drum. If you can afford it, get 80ft of 3/8th and more line for extension. For me, I'll probably just go with 80ft of 5/16th. Pick up a snatch block while you're at it. You may also want to have 3 or more D-shackles.
 

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IMHO, 50ft is too short. You also run the risk of getting too close to the end of the line. It could be catastrophic if the line slips out of the drum. If you can afford it, get 80ft of 3/8th and more line for extension. For me, I'll probably just go with 80ft of 5/16th. Pick up a snatch block while you're at it. You may also want to have 3 or more D-shackles.
Also if you need to double up a 50' line that becomes 25' with best conditions. So if you need to get someone else out you may have to get up close and personal to the same 'thing' (deep sand, water...) that made the other vehicle get stuck or connect the extension but then you have to watch that it doesn't get stuck in the snatch block. I believe the rule of thumb is to leave the last layer of rope on the drum so that -10' of rope.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Yep, I am focusing in on a 70-80' 3/8" line with an option to add a strap or extra length of cable.
 

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Whichever synthetic you decide to go with, I highly recommend getting a safety thimble. You can order it pre-installed on the line or weave it in yourself. Also, remember that sunlight is the harder on synthetic than anything else.

Viking Trail Line with Winch Safety Thimble
Honestly I tell people to stay away from this product, not because I am the Masterpull off road rep, but because I really don't see the point. If you are being careful you won't suck your fingers into your winch, I never put my hands into the thimble, ever! I always hold the hook when I am winching in. I also don't like the fact that you can't use a hook if you run a safety thimble.

-Alex
 

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The rope you want depends on what size winches you run and what extensions you are willing to carry. As you may or may not know a winch is rated for the first wrap, so a 9000lb winch has 9000lbs of pulling power on the first wrap of the drum, add more and the winch becomes less efficient and weaker. With that I have been recommending that people go with 75 ft of rope now instead of the usual 100. I still have 100ft of Superline XD on the front of my Jeep, and carry a 50ft extension with me. When I get the chance I would like to cut some rope off my winch, maybe even 50ft, and splice that into an extension to carry with me. I think the easiest thing for you to do is go with a 75ft length of rope on each end of your rig (if you can run dual winches), I would also recommend carrying at least one 50ft extension along with you. Now for the rope choices you have quite a few options there, here is my take on the ropes we sell as well as the ones on the market today.

All of these are 12 strand ropes, composed of the ultra strong, yet lightweight Dyneema fiber. This is essentially a plastic fiber, which is why the ropes are referred to as 'synthetics.'

Amsteel Blue- This line works well for a lot of people and has been used for years for offroading. Before that it was used on fishing boats and still is used in that way today. The problem with it is that it is not a very stiff line and is fairly easy to damage or get caught. This line is available from many different places and in a couple different colors too. Amsteel Blue, Winch Line, Rope, ATV winch lines

At Masterpull we have a few stronger line options:

MP winch rope- It is slightly stronger then Amsteel Blue and is a little bit stiffer and also more durable then Amsteel also. Winch Rope Master-Pull Basic Winch Ropes

MP Superline- This line is much stronger (21,000 lb breaking strength in 5/16ths line) and much more durable then either Amsteel or MP winch rope. The line itself starts out as a larger line, it is heated and stretched down to a 5/16ths line. This stretching makes the rope seem a little stiffer, which helps to keep dirt and grit from getting between the fibers and deteriorating them. Winch Rope Master-Pull Superline Winch Ropes

Any of these ropes are splice-able if they break, that is what is great about them. Either you can do it on the trail with a ball point pen and a screwdriver, or you can send them into us and we will take care of that for you (we'll splice any broken synthetic rope that you send to us).

MP Superline XD- This is the strongest rope on the market today and also the most durable. It's core is our Superline, with a outer braided cover that makes it incredibly abrasion resistant. Another great feature of the cover is that it helps to keep the inner core clean of even more grit then the Superline. Winch Rope Master-Pull Superline XD Winch Ropes

Now the one drawback of this rope is that once the cover is torn up their is no replacing it, we cannot re weave the cover for you or stitch it up. The other thing is that if you break this line we can splice it, but again we cannot repair the cover. Knowing that I still recommend the XD line to those who want their rope to last for years and years, it requires the least maintenance out of any rope on the market today.

Each of our ropes come with a 10ft nylon heat guard on the first ten feat of the rope, meant to go on the first wrap of the drum to protect the rope from being melted if the drum overheats. Some people prefer to use a LCP (liquid crystal polymer) section for the first 20ft or so of the rope because LCP is highly heat resistant. The drawback to this rope is that the fibers don't like being wrapped around snatch blocks, or dragged around. This is why we don't sell full length sections of LCP rope. Now you will see some people, like Warn, sell full lengths of Plasma rope. Plasma rope is like LCP in that it is heat resistant and doesn't like being bent, twisted, etc. I would recommend that everyone stays away from a full length of Plasma, LCP, or Technora, these are all the heat resistant fibers that I can think of at the moment. If I find another one I will post it up as well.

For any of the lines I would suggest a 3ft rock guard to go along with them. I like ours because they velcro on and off, making it easy to move them around and store in your rig. M-P Rock Guard ( chafe-guard )

Again if you have any more questions please ask, or if I need to clarify any of this. I know it is a lot of information so don't worry if it all doesn't make sense.

-Alex
 

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Honestly I tell people to stay away from this product, not because I am the Masterpull off road rep, but because I really don't see the point. If you are being careful you won't suck your fingers into your winch, I never put my hands into the thimble, ever! I always hold the hook when I am winching in. I also don't like the fact that you can't use a hook if you run a safety thimble.

-Alex
If you are "careful" you could prevent lots of things from happening but people still break bones, cut off fingers with saws, have car accidents, etc. Safety is about making sure you can't get hurt. :) In addition, as I mentioned previously, this allows you to reel in all the rope for a clean look and it keeps the rope out of the sun.

A hook on a standard steel thimble such as Thimble - Stainless Steel Thimble just won't pull up nicely against any fairlead. It just doesn't seat well and I'd wager to say the winch could easily pull the standard thimble and hook right through the opening. It will rattle like a SOB when bouncing around off-road and wear away at your fairlead. - - - >IMO :rocker:

PS, I don't like hooks.
 

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If you are "careful" you could prevent lots of things from happening but people still break bones, cut off fingers with saws, have car accidents, etc. Safety is about making sure you can't get hurt. :) In addition, as I mentioned previously, this allows you to reel in all the rope for a clean look and it keeps the rope out of the sun.

A hook on a standard steel thimble such as Thimble - Stainless Steel Thimble just won't pull up nicely against any fairlead. It just doesn't seat well and I'd wager to say the winch could easily pull the standard thimble and hook right through the opening. It will rattle like a SOB when bouncing around off-road and wear away at your fairlead. - - - >IMO :rocker:

PS, I don't like hooks.
I made gasket for mine ill post pics later.
 

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OK, if you like hooks this is a great way to go . . . winch isolator. I'm guessing MIGZ gasket is a variation on this.

Daystar Winch Isolator
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I was looking at the isolator or this line stopper:

I think it would be better if it had a slit in it that made it removeable rather than having to thread it through and leave it on.
 

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Alex, what advantage does a hook have over a thimble design? I can see hook being faster to setup, but that's about it. Am I missing something? You seem to really like the hook.
 

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Good to know. I'm not even remotely 'skooled' in the winching dept. I'm actually considering taking a class. Thank you. :D
Mo (Muddygrrl) will be happy to skool you in winching. I'm pretty sure Mo will take beer in trade. :cheers:

Gottagetone: I've met and dealt with Thor and his brother Jon a number of times and their customer service have been exemplary. I highly recommend viking trail line and safety thimble. If I have to do it over again, I'd go with 3/8" line as well. With the safety thimble, you can just snug the thimble against the fairlead--no rattling noise, no exposed cable. With the standard eye or hook, you'd need to use a D shackle to tie up the loose end on one of the front tow points.

Viking 5/16" trail line with safety thimble on Warn M8000 in Fabfours front bumper.

 

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If you are "careful" you could prevent lots of things from happening but people still break bones, cut off fingers with saws, have car accidents, etc. Safety is about making sure you can't get hurt. :) In addition, as I mentioned previously, this allows you to reel in all the rope for a clean look and it keeps the rope out of the sun.

A hook on a standard steel thimble such as Thimble - Stainless Steel Thimble just won't pull up nicely against any fairlead. It just doesn't seat well and I'd wager to say the winch could easily pull the standard thimble and hook right through the opening. It will rattle like a SOB when bouncing around off-road and wear away at your fairlead. - - - >IMO :rocker:

PS, I don't like hooks.
I didn't like hooks either but decide to try it and I love the Masterpull swivel hook with connector link. The hook is MASSIVE and rated at just under 29k pounds. It locks in place and used properly won't be going anywhere. Before the Masterpull setup, I was always loosing bow shackles but now I attach the hook directly to an acceptable winch points and rock and roll. I never had a safety thimble and really don't see any reason to. I use the hook to hold on to while winding the line back in and then slip the rope guard all the way down to the hook to protect the last foot or so from the sun.
 

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Hey i'm in California, north bay near san fran and I think Logging supply stores are against the law or have been replaced by weed stores... they only splice spleeffs


If you want the best then go to a logging supply store. We loggers are switching to "blue line" by the masses. IMO it would be silly to buy a packaged line from an off road company. If you go to the logging supply store you will have a dealer that will be able to service your line if it gets cut. Plus, you will be buying a line from people that know about putting lines to the test. I had one snap while pulling a set of logs and was able to get it spliced the same day.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Why would you splice a spliff? lol
 
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