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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What makes your FJ Cruiser an FJ? Or a Toyota for that matter? When does it stop being an FJ and become something else?

Let's say you build the hell out of your FJ.....you buy a pair of rock jock 60s for your Fj, lock it f/r, install an Atlas 4 speed; maybe Supercharge it or drop in a V8 (Toyota's or an LS2 or whatever). You're now running 37s with 4 link and coilovers and wheeling the crap out of it.

One day you're out on some gnarly trail and you roll it....bad. The body is destroyed, so you buy an F-Toy chassis and put all your stuff into it. Is it still a FJ Cruiser or is it now a buggy? My vote is buggy....but would it still be eligible at a "Toyota" event?

The reason I ask is: I've now been denied entry to two wheeling events b/c my buggy isn't a specific make. The latest is the Toyota Trail Teams Invitational to Big Bear in May. http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/trail-runs-get-togethers/57208-trail-teams-invitational-may-10-11-big-bear-ca.html

I am honestly not upset about it, but it is an interesting paradigm to me that I'd like some input on from other wheelers.

What attributes determine what kind of vehicle you drive?

Does the body determine the make/model? Is it the engine? Is it whatever it's registered as? How much sheetmetal is required to determine the make/model? Is it a percentage of original parts? I have my own ideas about this....just trying to gauge others' thoughts on the matter.

I understand with a full on buggy it's a bit different, but what about the guy that buys a 1 ton mid 80s Chevy truck and then swaps the entire drivetrain plus an Atlas into an Xterra. Is he welcome at X only events even though his X is really just Nissan skin?

What about Jeep Jamborees? I've seen guys accepted as "Jeeps" at these things in full tube chassis with a smorgasbord of different mfg. parts and only a Jeep grill, no problems. We've all likely seen built to the hilt vehicles that started out as Jeeps with 42" Swampers, D60/14B axles, SBC engines, TH400 trans with an Atlas....but by God the tub is still Jeep. Is it really still a Jeep and if yes or no, why does it really matter?

What about BellyDoc's project FJ40? It's not really an FJ40 anymore except for the hood, grill and portions of the tub, but b/c it largely resembles an FJ40 in appearance, it would likely be welcome at such an event....so is it largely just "skin deep"?

Of course, I've seen some of the factory sponsored events (or brand exclusives) where there is a limit on tire size....nothing bigger than 35s or 37s. This one sorta makes sense, but at the same time isn't fair really.

So, what's your take?

Sean
 

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You bring up an interesting discussion.

At first take, I guess it all depends on the event director and/or sanctioning body. From what little I've read on the few applications I've seen, the "restrictions" are dictated there. But, for most of us, it won't matter.

In my lay opinion, to be considered "X" vehicle (X = insert manufacture of your choice), it should at least have the manufacturer power plant (and/or "built" from the a base power plant ie block) and have a "skin" that resembles/represents the the intended vehicle make/model.

NASCAR pushes the outer limits of this concept as does the CORR vehicles.

Yet, I don't see issue with events such as the FJSummit and others like that which offer events that are manufacturer/model specific. It would make some sense to allow all vehicles however, it can make for some to view restrictions as "elitist". Yet, I've participated in motorcycle events that have similar restrictions that don't get the masses of other manufacturer vehicle owners "forcing" their way into the event.

I don't know, tough call. I guess it all depends on which side of the fence one is sitting...

Just my 2 cents...
 

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Maybe start with what the Event's site says:

If you are a Toyota owner, perspective owner, off-road novice or die hard ‘wheeler this event is for you.
First off, they meant "prospective", but it's their web site and they can spell as badly as they want to.

potential, likely, or expected: a prospective partner

So that means you don't own a Toyota but may be interested. BUT, because you are not driving a Toyota you are automatically disqualified.

Yeah, I know that they are bringing a few test drive vehicles and I drove one at last year's Pomona Expo. Not an experience likely to convince me to immediately buy a Toyota.

They would do well to invite an "die-hard 'wheeler" (their words) such as Sean.
 

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FJ40 in appearance, it would likely be welcome at such an event....so is it largely just "skin deep"?

So, what's your take?
[/QUOTE]

Eye of the beholder/organizer. I think that if it looks enough like a Toyota, it's a Toyota. They also have to be street legal because at the end of the course they need to take a road back to wherever - or maybe a trailer will be there to meet them?

I was in Utah yesterday and was surprised at the number of trails that specify street-legal... what happened?
 

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I'm gunna reegisteer my lil' Toyoter pick 'emup for the trail event. Here is a peectoore


:rofl:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just to be on the trails in Big Bear, it's my understanding that you have to be street legal. I was just planning to run JB and then either loop it, or turn back around and come back out the way I went in....hence my questions about where we were staging from in the other thread.

Like I said, doesn't matter about the TT deal in Big Bear, I was just more making small talk about what constitutes a certain vehicle and apparently, from most responses here, it's based mostly on looks.

With that in mind, I guess I should be looking at Jeep Liberty only gatherings. :lol: :rofl: Ya, like there are a bunch of those. ;)

Larry, no idea on what's going on in Utah. It probably has to do with NFS land vs. BLM land. Most of the popular trails in Moab are on BLM so there's no "street legal" requirement. The more scenic runs that traverse "maintained" roadways in the NFS require you to be registered, insured and street legal. It's the same here in AZ.

Got any specific trails in UT which you are speaking of?

Sean
 

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Sean,

If you ever do come out this way I hope to see your rig in action!!
 

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Sean, I agree with most that say it is solely based on the appearance of the rig. Duct tape a Toyota grille and hood to it and you would be in.......lol
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Sean,

If you ever do come out this way I hope to see your rig in action!!
Well, since I'm not going to this particular event, I'm planning something mid to end of June. It'll be a one day (Saturday) deal. Planning to hit JB for sure and maybe Holcomb Creek if it actually opens this year. I have every other Friday off, so I'll probably drive out on Friday, stay at my MIL's house near Diamond Bar, get up early Saturday and hit the trail by 10 am or so.

Anyone's welcome to come along. Summer temps here are so bad we don't really even get out to wheel at night much that time of year, so it'll be a nice break.

Sean
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sean, I agree with most that say it is solely based on the appearance of the rig. Duct tape a Toyota grille and hood to it and you would be in.......lol
Funny you mention that....I would've picked the Grand Cherokee skin if it had been out when I bought the Liberty stuff. The only thing really available in 'glass is the FJ40 and I just didn't think it looked as nice on a tube frame.

Half wish I'd have configured the chassis to look more like a pickup truck (kinda like Skinny's comp buggy with S10 panels), then I could've narrowed my old Hilux stuff and run that....oh well, hindsight is 20/20. :)

Sean
 

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Funny you mention that....I would've picked the Grand Cherokee skin if it had been out when I bought the Liberty stuff. The only thing really available in 'glass is the FJ40 and I just didn't think it looked as nice on a tube frame.

Half wish I'd have configured the chassis to look more like a pickup truck (kinda like Skinny's comp buggy with S10 panels), then I could've narrowed my old Hilux stuff and run that....oh well, hindsight is 20/20. :)

Sean
The guy I bought the CJ7 from is running a Liberty front end on his buggy.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ya, they are VERY popular. :lol: When I bought the skins way back when there were only a handful of people running them....now everyone is. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. ;)

Sean
 
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