[FJ-Sun]

I hate flying in snow since it usually means airframe icing that can quickly become multiple critical problems to deal with all at once even with flight into known icing equipment certification. Takeoffs and landings become problematic for the same reasons. Having retired from Commercial PIC responsibilities, forecast icing is a no-go for me, FIKI certification or not.

Just watching that crash in Brazil was horrific for me, and reading about the problems the pilots KNEW before they left just stun me. Icing is no joke. Visibility is no joke. One thing the ground school instructor went through is stories from his life. He told us about a friend of his who had a King Air, which is a twin, with only one pressure pump, the day was pretty much 0:0, meaning bad visibility, but they 'had to get there', so he, the wife, and their 2 kids piled into the plane and they took off anyway, the pump failed, they crashed, no survivors. Rescuers noted that the conditions cleared up shortly after the crash, not to say that meant they would survive, but the pilot would be able to see the ground. Not a small thing. We also studied the John-John Kennedy crash too, in detail. (I groaned so much with people believing that he was coming back for some election or something. No, he really totally completely dead)

But that Brazil crash, WOW!! Totally icing, totally malignantly ignorant flight crew, totally avoidable, totally horrific to watch from so many angles! Friends were asking me what happened, and to say that it was totally avoidable just shocked them, and still does me...

And weather! Gawd, we were coming in for a landing and the plane dropped like 20 feet (it was not that bad, it always feels more dramatic) and as we taxied in to the terminal, found out that there was an observed tornado on the ground a couple miles from the airport. 'Get there-itis' is a huge component of many airplane crashes. (Ground school instructor said that at some point in your flying, you will be faced with a red faced wife screaming at you that you and the kids HAVE to be home, and will have to tell her 'No, I'm not flying today!' and buy her and the kids a one-way ticket and have to wait out the weather until you can SAFELY fly to your home airport. At that my wife said she'd rather fly commercial then. So vertigo saved us a lot of money I guess)

 

[FJ-Sun]

Winter flying

Back when Northwest was flying the SWF turbo props, the ones with the overhead wing and you could watch the landing gear go up and down from your window, their blades would ice up in winter flying. They had heaters but the pilots had a reason why they didn't keep them on the whole time (I'd asked but have forgotten why). So, the plane would begin to shake, like sneakers in a dryer, and then after a minute it would stop, once the heated blade had shed its ice.

Well, if you ever looked closely at the side, there was a thick "plate" welded to the outside of the hull, in line with the prop. It was so when the ice would fling off and hit the side of the plane (always with a very loud BANG), it wouldn't hurt anything.

First few times I had flights like that I was jumpy, until I learned to just look at the stewardesses, so long as they were casually chatting with customers and each other I knew all that shaking and banging wasn't anything to worry about (because they weren't).

I noticed that when the little AVRO jets, and the Canadair "little DC9s" came along, none of the commercial airlines used turboprops for their regional routes anymore. Very efficient with fuel, but too scary for the customers.

The 737 MAX jets have a problem with engine deice that can cause damage and possible loss of the engine intake cowling. (Yeah, tell me that is a safe jet) Apparently they came up with a fix, but I don't know if it's been approved yet. Pilots have to 'monitor' icing, and only leave the icing on for as long as necessary. If it's Boeing, I'm not going? Joking a little here. I have the sticker 'If it's not Boeing, I'm not going' so a play on that years old saying.

One of my earlier memories of flying was on a turboprop plane with wing leading edge 'boots' and them being inflated and watching the ice cracking and falling off. That was a long time before deicing became vital.

 

[Prado 2007]

Years ago, I was scheduled for my Instrument Checkride with an FAA Designated Pilot Examiner who had a rep as a demanding perfectionist. I prepped well and was feeling reasonably confident when the day arrived. Weather was 1,000' overcast, tops well above the service ceiling and flight plan altitude of my Piper Arrow trainer, with the possibility of a summer thunderstorm. Oral exam, preflight and departure were normal, ATC communications spot on, as we followed our instrument cross country flight plan, DPE in the right seat silently observing.

About halfway into the flight, ATC advised of a t-storm at 12 o'clock, 20 miles, and vectored us around, and then behind the storm and back on course. This was in the days before Doppler weather radar deployment so ATC didn't see a second t-storm directly behind the first one and we were in the soup so couldn't see anything either. I knew something was wrong when the grey clouds turned pink, then purple, with the strong smell of ozone (bleach). Then the updrafts and downdrafts started, +/- 2,000 fpm every few seconds, as I slowed to maneuvering speed. Then the rain started if you can call it that. It was like flying through a swimming pool. The aircraft was completely out of control, the only flight surface having any effect was rudder. Then the hail began. I thought the windshield would cave in but it held. The noise was overwhelming, conversation was impossible but I could almost hear the DPE screaming swear words like a sailor...which he was, a Naval Reserve pilot. I decided to not do a 180°, hoping we'd been through the worst of it. After about a minute of the pounding that seemed much longer, we popped out the other side underneath the massive anvil. That's when we saw both t-storms that ATC radar was only painting as one.

The DPE had me refile a plan back to the departure airport that was also where the ATC Radar Control Center directing us was located. After an ILS approach and landing, we inspected the a/c and pretty much every panel was destroyed by hail damage. He had me join him going into the ATC Radar Control Center and asked for the supervisor. He tore into that guy like nothing I'd seen before or since. The other room full of controllers were stunned at the outburst and the supervisor knew that nothing could explain their error at turning us back on course too soon.

The a/c appeared to be a total loss but don't know, I moved to another state the next week.

I passed the Instrument Checkride, good, knowing that I had a 50/50 chance based on the DPE's pass/fail record, but was happier to be alive to talk about it.

 

[Kaiju]

There's a place here in the Coast Range near Hagg Lake called the "Flying M Ranch". There's only one way to land at the place due to a steep, high mountain on one end. The other more open end of the runway has tall trees at it's end. To land, the approach is steep and you have to avoid the trees to set down on the grass runway.

To take off, you have to do it opposite the way you landed. Full throttle, a little more flaps, pull the yoke/stick into your stomach and you may give the trees a slight haircut sometimes as you go by. Wind speed and direction can close the runway.

There's wreakage left over shoved to one area from many failed attempts, usually during landing. It's a sphincter tightening experience to fly to that place just to go fishing or even have lunch.

 

[Prado 2007]

Glider training helps there. I use a fully cross-controlled forward slip to quickly lose altitude while clearing obstructions (stupid trees) to land for my $300 hamburger. On takeoff I use a short field/soft field departure in ground effect with the stall warning blaring until reaching Vx, best angle to gain the most altitude over horizontal distance. Each year it gets a little more challenging as the trees grow.

 

[Kaiju]

Yep, crossed-controls really helped with the landings. It just looks weird coming down.

 

[FJ-Sun]

There's a place here in the Coast Range near Hagg Lake called the "Flying M Ranch". There's only one way to land at the place due to a steep, high mountain on one end. The other more open end of the runway has tall trees at it's end. To land, the approach is steep and you have to avoid the trees to set down on the grass runway.

To take off, you have to do it opposite the way you landed. Full throttle, a little more flaps, pull the yoke/stick into your stomach and you may give the trees a slight haircut sometimes as you go by. Wind speed and direction can close the runway.

There's wreakage left over shoved to one area from many failed attempts, usually during landing. It's a sphincter tightening experience to fly to that place just to go fishing or even have lunch.

There are some public airports that aren't easy too, and some can cause concern in passengers. We 'dropped in' to San Diego once, on approach, just cleared the ridge before the airport, and the pilot dropped the plane a little too quickly, people 'squeaked', freaking a rather large number of them. Reverse ops, taking off to the east can elicit squeaks too as they pull back a little too hard. Taking off from Denver, a few people were commenting if we'd be driving to the destination as we rolled quite a bit before rotating. (The air is thin?) Mackinac Island in Michigan has an airport (no fuel) and planes often disappear dropping after taking off before they then popup into view, except sometimes they don't. I saw a plane disappear and was wondering if they made it. It's common to get the up, or down drafts off the cliff. Once the plane didn't clear the water and golfers actually climbed through the trees and brambles to actually help the pilots and passenger out of the plane! Wow... RDU is fairly well known for crosswinds, and we hit one, seeing the corn standing straight up as the plane rolled nearly 90 degrees. Many people screamed. The wife shot me a glare too! That wasn't me, honest!!

Funny: Northwest used to have a plaque on the bulkhead of some of their DC-9 planes. One plane I got in had the plaque in full view and I saw the 'birth date'. 'Wow, this plane is only 5 years younger than ME!!' The wife hit me and several passengers looked and didn't look enthused... 😆

 

[FJ-Sun]

Glider training helps there. I use a fully cross-controlled forward slip to quickly lose altitude while clearing obstructions (stupid trees) to land for my $300 hamburger. On takeoff I use a short field/soft field departure in ground effect with the stall warning blaring until reaching Vx, best angle to gain the most altitude over horizontal distance. Each year it gets a little more challenging as the trees grow.

First lesson: the instructor takes off, and then pulls his hands in 'It's yours! Keep it level.' Um, okay! Sure... We do some slow turns, and then we go to land and he takes over. He does a 'full stall' landing, the horn screaming, and then looks at me sitting there looking at him, and says with a grin, 'Don't do that.' NIIIIIICE... That was the school I quit before one of their planes had an oil leak and possible fire. Good grief... One day I happened to be driving by when several biplanes were landing, and one turned so quickly, and so close to the ground they almost struck the ground! I wish I had a video of it. The one saying I remember is 'There are old pilots and bold pilots, but there aren't any old bold pilots'. Like the Northwest DC-9 that I saw the pilot go to TO speed while still making the corner to the runway? So close to slamming that wing into the ground! Yeah, hell no!!

And in the little RJ's, dropping the plane as the flaps lower, accentuating the effect. One flight attendant rolled her eyes and said 'They love to do that to us'.

 

[rotorhed1]

Shot some approaches into Telluride in a PC-12. Decision height and horizontal position are out there. We did a missed approach and were over Black Bear Pass.

Another time we were in Grand Junction for avionics work on the 222U. It looked like there might have been a (singular) cloud near Cortez. So in the interest of safety we diverted east. Followed the Animas River to Durango.
Again in the interest of safety we figured that 100' AGL was proper. 🤫

 

[norm356]

Oh, man that landing in Telluride is interesting for a first time passenger. Like landing on a dinner table, so short with sheer drop-offs on seemingly every side.

 

[rotorhed1]

Yep. Radar Altimeter isn't effective. GPWS is great. Go arounds must be initiated early. Cuz the mountains don't give many options.

 

[Prado 2007]

Whew, I looked at the Telluride approach plates. The performance restrictions alone make it daunting. No way I'd try that in a normally aspirated piston plane, single or twin, in the event of a missed approach. Your PC-12 would be ideal, along with pilots who've made successful approaches there recently. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents there but imagine most transient a/c are turbines flown by pros.

 

[FJ-Sun]

Whew, I looked at the Telluride approach plates. The performance restrictions alone make it daunting. No way I'd try that in a normally aspirated piston plane, single or twin, in the event of a missed approach. Your PC-12 would be ideal, along with pilots who've made successful approaches there recently. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents there but imagine most transient a/c are turbines flown by pros.

Sounds like a the 'airport' at a self labeled 'sports complex' up state from here. They claim to have an 'airport', but it's a grass strip that, from Google Earth, looks like a slash in the trees with a hut for a 'terminal'. I've seen a couple helicopters and an occasional 172 there, and wonder how many jets come in/out as they profess. On a grass strip? With trees all over? Um, I'm not thinking that's likely to happen. But they have an 'airport'. 🤤

 

[GWebb]

I used to work ATC at BJC Tower. Pilatus has a huge hangar there called Pilatus Completions. PC12's and PC24's are flown from Switzerland to that facility with minimal interior work being done and are finished there according to the customer's specs. Most of the paint jobs are done at a facility at GJT.

 

[rotorhed1]

I went to PC-12 school in 06. My FJ was 3 weeks old.


In the 80s I went to Colorado Aero Tech. It's changed names more than once.

Did some work on a company 214 at Jefco. While I was waiting for my A&P exam.
First job as an A&P was out of Boulder. 206, 214, 500D, Lama and Alouette III.

 

[mrclgv]

Yep. Radar Altimeter isn't effective. GPWS is great. Go arounds must be initiated early. Cuz the mountains don't give many options.

Yep... Neither the mountains, windshear or density altitude either! Fly safe buddy.

 

[FJ-Sun]

Yep... Neither the mountains, windshear or density altitude either! Fly safe buddy.

Fun fact, maybe: The senior pilot (no first officer) has to land and take off any commercial plane to/from St Martin (SXM). I did not realize that until I watched a video from a cargo company. They swapped pilots about an hour before landing out of Europe to have a fresh PIC, no first officers flying that airport. It's got to be the mountains, but not sure there have ever been accidents there.

 

[Kaiju]

Wow! No straight in approach with this one.

 

[Prado 2007]

Whoa, had to read up on what it takes to qualify for Paro operations. Only a handful of ATP's are certified. There's no published instrument approach or radar available, it's entirely hand flown, daylight only VFR allowed. Surprisingly, Paro has a clean safety record for both arrivals and departures. I imagine a go-around would be exciting.

Why So Few Pilots Are Allowed At Bhutan’s Paro Airport

Only two airlines fly to the airport.

simpleflying.com

 

[Kaiju]

That one reminded me of the old Hong Kong Kai Tak airport. I loved performing that approach in a 747 in Flight Sim.