[Landrover]

Before I even left the FJ at the shop, I told them that I noticed a lot of rat poop on top of the manifold. I did see where something had nibbled on one of the coil pack wires but nothing major, and I blew the motor off with air. They said that they would look at the wires.

I'm not sure how hard they looked but, the mechanic replaced the chain and tensioners with a new kit. They said that the timing was slightly off, but not from a skipped chain. The motor was started up and boom, the lights were back on! They then said that they should have changed the timing gear assemblies while they had it open. Apparently they felt one of the two had some abnormal wear but figured that it was ok. The motor was taken apart again, and both gears were replaced. It was then that they said they found a damaged wire and repaired the harness. The motor runs great and the lights are long gone.

So, to answer the question, was it the gears or the wire? I will never know, both were done at the same time. The good part of the story, the entire repair was at the dealers expense. I will say, as has others have, the car ran perfectly fine even with all of the lights on.

Thanks for the feedback, teamrags. Would you mind telling me what the cost was for all the internal stuff; the chains, tensioners (I have heard the aftermarket ones are better than factory), gears, etc.

 

[ZoSoIV]

Chain and all is about 200.00

 

[Landrover]

Chain and all is about 200.00

Yeah, I know the parts aren't that expensive, although I have heard a bit more than $200, but I am wondering the labor is. Doing all the necessary work is simply above my desire if not ability to do.

 

[ZoSoIV]

About 2400.00 repair

 

[Landrover]

About 2400.00 repair

That sounds a bit better than I have heard from most.

 

[waypoint]

@ZUNAMI1 did you ever replace your timing chain, or still running it as is? This thread was a huge help in diagnosing and fixing my '07 4Runner with stretched chain and I appreciate your detailed posts. I just finished replacing all 3 chains, guides, crank sprocket, idler sprocket, exhaust sprockets, and tensioners to fix mine.

It doesn't take much elongation of the main chain to put bank 1 8-10 degrees retarded on timing, as shown in the pics attached. The 2 chains are the new Toyota part next to the factory chain, hanging from a level bar with the pins aligned at the top. The #1 chain tensioner pic is a new Cloyes replacement piece I installed last Fall, showing how far it extended to take up the slack in the chain. The timing mark pics show bank 1 intake cam indexed to the timing mark on the bearing cap as shown in the service manual, and where that put the crankshaft timing mark...nearly 10 degrees ATDC.

One thing to add for diagnostics: scantool showed Long Term Fuel Trims were consistently imbalanced by ~3% at idle previously, even with new NGK spark plugs installed last Fall. After replacing the timing components, they're perfectly balanced at either +0.78% or +1.56% both banks every time I scan. This is likely accounted for by the cams now being timed correctly on both banks, whereas with the stretched chain the passenger side bank was more severely retarded than the driver side bank.

 

[DEWFPO]

How many miles are on this engine?

DEWFPO

 

[ZUNAMI1]

@ZUNAMI1 did you ever replace your timing chain, or still running it as is? This thread was a huge help in diagnosing and fixing my '07 4Runner with stretched chain and I appreciate your detailed posts. I just finished replacing all 3 chains, guides, crank sprocket, idler sprocket, exhaust sprockets, and tensioners to fix mine.

It doesn't take much elongation of the main chain to put bank 1 8-10 degrees retarded on timing, as shown in the pics attached. The 2 chains are the new Toyota part next to the factory chain, hanging from a level bar with the pins aligned at the top. The #1 chain tensioner pic is a new Cloyes replacement piece I installed last Fall, showing how far it extended to take up the slack in the chain. The timing mark pics show bank 1 intake cam indexed to the timing mark on the bearing cap as shown in the service manual, and where that put the crankshaft timing mark...nearly 10 degrees ATDC.

One thing to add for diagnostics: scantool showed Long Term Fuel Trims were consistently imbalanced by ~3% at idle previously, even with new NGK spark plugs installed last Fall. After replacing the timing components, they're perfectly balanced at either +0.78% or +1.56% both banks every time I scan. This is likely accounted for by the cams now being timed correctly on both banks, whereas with the stretched chain the passenger side bank was more severely retarded than the driver side bank.

Glad it helped. Thanks for your great post with pics. My FJ got a V8 swap for fun. Engine was fine but worn from previous owner neglect. Sold engine for $150 and it was repaired with chain and installed fine by buyer. Subject FJ sold to neighbor and then he traded for Tundra after beating on it.
I've PM'd, emailed, and talked to lots of FJ guys with same issues. Always want it to be something simpler than chain but almost always ends up being chain wear. My luck was unique to realign gears but that was because I was so far stretched. Not likely for others.

For others, look at the extension of the chain tensioner aka adjuster. If way out, over an inch, it's timing chain replacement time. Unless you've examined before, the chain adjuster / tensioner is a ratcheting, oil pressure actuated. As parts wear it will extend out only and the ratcheting action prevents retraction. There is a cover that can be removed easily and with camera take a pic and get your answer.

75k is enough to cause this condition (reported by other FJ owners with P0016 due to chain).

How may miles on yours?

 

[waypoint]

How many miles are on this engine?

182K miles at this time. The factory tensioner I removed at 164K miles is in the attached pic, with the coloration rings showing the history of incremental chain stretch during the original owner's neglect.

 

[waypoint]

For others, look at the extension of the chain tensioner aka adjuster. If way out, over an inch, it's timing chain replacement time. Unless you've examined before, the chain adjuster / tensioner is a ratcheting, oil pressure actuated. As parts wear it will extend out only and the ratcheting action prevents retraction. There is a cover that can be removed easily and with camera take a pic and get your answer.

75k is enough to cause this condition (reported by other FJ owners with P0016 due to chain).

How may miles on yours?

182K miles at present, and Toyota records show the P0016 first reported at 96K miles for the original owner. Dealer at that time quoted him an engine replacement due to sludge. He continued driving it until 2017 @ 164K miles, and sold it on Craigslist for cheap when it would no longer get through inspection. Oil change intervals from CarFax and Toyota show a history of oil changes averaging ~22K miles.

Attached is another pic of the factory tensioner at a different angle showing the discoloration rings.

 

[Landrover]

@ZUNAMI1 did you ever replace your timing chain, or still running it as is? This thread was a huge help in diagnosing and fixing my '07 4Runner with stretched chain and I appreciate your detailed posts. I just finished replacing all 3 chains, guides, crank sprocket, idler sprocket, exhaust sprockets, and tensioners to fix mine.

It doesn't take much elongation of the main chain to put bank 1 8-10 degrees retarded on timing, as shown in the pics attached. The 2 chains are the new Toyota part next to the factory chain, hanging from a level bar with the pins aligned at the top. The #1 chain tensioner pic is a new Cloyes replacement piece I installed last Fall, showing how far it extended to take up the slack in the chain. The timing mark pics show bank 1 intake cam indexed to the timing mark on the bearing cap as shown in the service manual, and where that put the crankshaft timing mark...nearly 10 degrees ATDC.

One thing to add for diagnostics: scantool showed Long Term Fuel Trims were consistently imbalanced by ~3% at idle previously, even with new NGK spark plugs installed last Fall. After replacing the timing components, they're perfectly balanced at either +0.78% or +1.56% both banks every time I scan. This is likely accounted for by the cams now being timed correctly on both banks, whereas with the stretched chain the passenger side bank was more severely retarded than the driver side bank.

Still not something that I could tackle on my own. Just not set up for it. Any idea on cost of parts plus labor for having a shop do this?

75k is enough to cause this condition (reported by other FJ owners with P0016 due to chain).

How may miles on yours?

Mine started at about 80K. Just happy that I didn't go around replacing parts like the cam sensors and crankshaft sensors (P0016 code) to try to resolve it. I now have almost 150K and it's going to need to be done as I can tell the engine is starting to get loud in the last 10K miles. Did anyone ever have a reason why some of the chains stretched so badly at such a low amount of mileage? I mean, if your chain is going out at less than 100K, I'd just as soon have a timing belt that I replace every 100K miles.

182K miles at this time. The factory tensioner I removed at 164K miles is in the attached pic, with the coloration rings showing the history of incremental chain stretch during the original owner's neglect.

I figure that's what my tensioner looks like about now.

 

[waypoint]

Still not something that I could tackle on my own. Just not set up for it. Any idea on cost of parts plus labor for having a shop do this?

A very reputable local shop that specializes in Toyota & Lexus quoted $3,600 parts & labor. It would have been much more given the other problems I found...leaking radiator, trashed idler pulleys, noisy alternator. I didn't get a dealer quote.

I'm experienced and have a modest amount of mechanical training...and I don't recommend this project be taken lightly. I went to OMC (Evinrude & Johnson) outboard motor school during high school a loooong time ago, and worked as a mechanic at a marina. I've done engine swaps, heads & cam upgrades, etc on my Chevrolet vehicles.

So while not my first rodeo, this was my first DOHC engine project and it was a PITA in comparison to all that prior experience. Toyota putting the oil pump on the timing cover, instead of bolting it to the block as GM does on their LS engines, increases the complexity of timing cover installation quite a bit. Took me a net of 6 days from start to finish, reading and following the service manual step by step, using torque wrenches on *every bolt* in multiple incremental steps for the timing cover, AC compressor, intake manifold, valve covers, etc.

Mine started at about 80K. Just happy that I didn't go around replacing parts like the cam sensors and crankshaft sensors (P0016 code) to try to resolve it. I now have almost 150K and it's going to need to be done as I can tell the engine is starting to get loud in the last 10K miles. Did anyone ever have a reason why some of the chains stretched so badly at such a low amount of mileage? I mean, if your chain is going out at less than 100K, I'd just as soon have a timing belt that I replace every 100K miles.

Yup, I wasted a lot of time and nearly $250 throwing parts at it last year including a VVT solenoid and actuator. As Zunami said, I really wanted it to not be the chain. The problem was obvious as soon as I removed the 4-bolt cover and saw the tensioner plunger over-extended.

I really believe that Toyota got a defective batch of timing chains, given every case I find is a 2007 or 08 1GRFE. I haven't found a single instance of 2003-2006 4Runners, or 2009 FJ/4Runners, having this problem. The original manufacturer of these chains is unknown, as the manufacturer ID mark on the endplates doesn't seem to be traceable.

I figure that's what my tensioner looks like about now.

I wouldn't go by noise alone...I found 2 trashed serpentine belt idler pulley bearings during disassembly that were most likely my noisemakers.

It's easy to remove the 4-bolt cover and examine the tensioner, don't even have to replace the gasket if you don't tear it during removal of the cover. Put a shop rag over your serpentine belt so you don't drip oil on the belt.

 

[Landrover]

A very reputable local shop that specializes in Toyota & Lexus quoted $3,600 parts & labor. It would have been much more given the other problems I found...leaking radiator, trashed idler pulleys, noisy alternator. I didn't get a dealer quote.

I'm experienced and have a modest amount of mechanical training...and I don't recommend this project be taken lightly. I went to OMC (Evinrude & Johnson) outboard motor school during high school a loooong time ago, and worked as a mechanic at a marina. I've done engine swaps, heads & cam upgrades, etc on my Chevrolet vehicles.

So while not my first rodeo, this was my first DOHC engine project and it was a PITA in comparison to all that prior experience. Toyota putting the oil pump on the timing cover, instead of bolting it to the block as GM does on their LS engines, increases the complexity of timing cover installation quite a bit. Took me a net of 6 days from start to finish, reading and following the service manual step by step, using torque wrenches on *every bolt* in multiple incremental steps for the timing cover, AC compressor, intake manifold, valve covers, etc.



Yup, I wasted a lot of time and nearly $250 throwing parts at it last year including a VVT solenoid and actuator. As Zunami said, I really wanted it to not be the chain. The problem was obvious as soon as I removed the 4-bolt cover and saw the tensioner plunger over-extended.

I really believe that Toyota got a defective batch of timing chains, given every case I find is a 2007 or 08 1GRFE. I haven't found a single instance of 2003-2006 4Runners, or 2009 FJ/4Runners, having this problem. The original manufacturer of these chains is unknown, as the manufacturer ID mark on the endplates doesn't seem to be traceable.



I wouldn't go by noise alone...I found 2 trashed serpentine belt idler pulley bearings during disassembly that were most likely my noisemakers.

It's easy to remove the 4-bolt cover and examine the tensioner, don't even have to replace the gasket if you don't tear it during removal of the cover. Put a shop rag over your serpentine belt so you don't drip oil on the belt.

Thanks for the reply, Waypoint. I just dread putting $4K into a vehicle as old as this. Do you think you're set now, or is there a chance that you'll have to do it all again in another 80K+ miles?

 

[Landrover]

Oh...and just fyi, I changed my oil religiously every time the light came on for the life of the vehicle. This was an obvious design flaw or substandard parts by Toyota. A chain is there expressly to last the life of an engine. I think this should have been a recall situation.

 

[waypoint]

Thanks for the reply, Waypoint. I just dread putting $4K into a vehicle as old as this. Do you think you're set now, or is there a chance that you'll have to do it all again in another 80K+ miles?

I'm using the Toyota chain listed under the updated/revised part number. Couldn't get any info from Toyota on whether it was an improved design, but based on the lack of other model years having this problem and the new chain having different manufacturer ID markings on the plates...I'm optimistic that it'll outlast the vehicle. The chain alone cost about as much as the eBay complete kits, even at discount.

I'm also sticking with oil containing a high dose of moly anti-wear additive...Pennzoil and Quaker State seem to have the highest according to oil analysis data. Synthetics and 5K mile oil changes.

Also, I put over 17K hard miles on the engine after buying it last year, changing oil at ~2500 mile intervals as it got jet-black quickly busting sludge. The tensioner did not extend any further during that time, even with the chain's pins/bushings already worn. Seems to indicate that clean oil in good condition does the job.

With all this said...I'll be tempted to pull the 4-bolt cover and check the tensioner plunger extended length at some point down the road.

 

[waypoint]

With all this said...I'll be tempted to pull the 4-bolt cover and check the tensioner plunger extended length at some point down the road.

Update: now at 248K miles (69K hard miles since the chain project) and I pulled the tensioner cover, plunger has extended by 1 ratchet tooth. No issues with the vehicle, I was bored with all this COVID lockdown drama.

 

[DEWFPO]

I appreciate the update.

DEWFPO

 

[Landrover]

Thanks for the update, Waypoint. Still rolling with my P0016 code at 170K miles. PITA not having any traction control, but at this point I'm going to keep rolling the thing until I trade it in. I now drive 1 mile each way to work in my Mazda 6 and my wife, who drives the FJ, is working from home. May trade it in on a 2021 Bronco as she needs a new car after 14 years of the FJ.

 

[waypoint]

May trade it in on a 2021 Bronco as she needs a new car after 14 years of the FJ.

Same here, wife's vehicle is 2005 vintage Mercury Mariner with 208K miles and we're watching the Bronco with great interest. I'm hesitant to buy the first year of any vehicle model (especially a Ford), however...

 

[FJtest]

Thanks for the update, Waypoint. Still rolling with my P0016 code at 170K miles. PITA not having any traction control, but at this point I'm going to keep rolling the thing until I trade it in. I now drive 1 mile each way to work in my Mazda 6 and my wife, who drives the FJ, is working from home. May trade it in on a 2021 Bronco as she needs a new car after 14 years of the FJ.

Landrover -

If I am reading your posts correctly, you have been having P0016 issues since ~40K miles.

Did you purchase this vehicle new, or as a used vehicle?

If used, was there a complete service history available covering the period prior to your purchase?

Finally, have you pulled the inspection plate over the chain tensioner and confirmed that the chain is elongated by the distance that the tensioner plunger is extended?

If your plunger is NOT grossly extended, your timing chain is NOT excessively worn, and there are other conditions that can erroneously trigger the P0016 code, like cracked or very slightly bent reluctors on the cam phasers.

Certainly 40K miles (or 100K miles) is an unacceptable life for a timing chain IF the specified oil change intervals were
followed using the correct oil.

The fact that many 1GR-FE engines achieve 300-400K miles with their original chains indicates that there isn't a fundamental design flaw in the engine.