Always sad to see an FJ hurt

Good luck with insurance.

 

In Colorado, you can take the vehicle to the repair shop of your choice....not that recommended by the insurance for the vehicle that hit you. Make sure you are confident in their abilities. A good body shop will represent you and ensure that the paying insurance company pays for the proper replacement parts. I would insist that they use OEM parts or parts the body shops believes are OEM quality or better and make sure their insurance company agrees.

Beyond that, I would already be on the phone with the insurance company representing the person who hit your vehicle and demanding they replace it in it entirety with a low mileage (~6k) 2014 FJ. Get your insurance company involved if the other insurance company is not cooperating. Let them worry about a bent frame - they can own your FJ and buy you a replacement.

I would be VERY demanding since the other party is 100% at fault. Dont back down there is no reason you shouldnt be made fully whole in this situation. And for me, I want an exact replacement that has never been in an accident (because that is what your FJ was before their client plowed into your FJ). If they dont cooperate contact the state insurance commissioners office in Colorado. I have done this before when I felt the other insurance company wasnt cooperating to my satisfaction. Document every conversation you have with them.

 

Sorry to hear that...obviously not the same type of hit...but a side impact on the fj isn't cheap...make sure they check the differential housing and the axel...here is a link http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/general-discussion/440177-sad-day-fj.html to my wreak last month...pm me and i'll give you more info if you need.

 

I have seen these FJ's take some shots over the years. I don't think that was deep enough to tweak the frame.
If the frame is toast, I have a buddy that got banned from here years ago. He was oneof the first dudes to get an FJ, The first thing he did was bend the frame. I would guess he had 150,000 miles of the hardest mob driving on his replacement frame.
Sorry your FJ was dinged.

 

Hard to tell in the pictures but the Wheel does not look damaged and if it is very minor... That's a great thing, looks like it just blew the tire... All in all very minor damage, I believe the step rails you have attach to the floor pan and do not attach to the frame so I highly doubt you have any kind of frame damage. More than likely floor pan damage. I think your in pretty good shape as far as accidents go. To answer your question about a frame change if one was needed... It's actually not that hard to change, the beauty of having a full frame vehicle, the frames are strong and harder to damage vs uniframe and easier to repair to like new or replace. Alloy wheels damage easy when impacted, judging by lack of damage or very minor damage to the wheel I doubt you will have any supension damage, wheel bearing or differential damage. Make sure they check the oposite side wheel that went up on the curb.... If anyone of the wheels is broken or bent push to have that side wheel bearing replaced, wheel bearings are not designed for impact force. Unfortunate that you got hit but great that the damage appears to be small...my guess, in a few weeks she'll be as good as new.

Cheers

 

x2. Probably just going to need new rockers grafted in as well as new doors. Probably less than 7 or 8 grand if I had to take a shot in the dark.

If you had been driving it and the bags blew then you would be looking at a much higher number

 

Thanks all for the input. Definitely seems the FJ isn't damaged much. The driver returned to the scene hours later, turns out his car was totalled... FJ wins. I agree that things should be fixable, but this was about as close to "brand new" as you can get so anything beyond "light bodywork" is frankly a big blow. Put it this way: if I were posting here on the forums that I was selling a mint 2014 6-speed FJ with 6,000 miles and NO accidents, what would you guys say is a fair price? Now say it's the same FJ, but it was in an accident and here's the list of things (xyz) they did to fix it.. no way anyone says it's worth the same amount, right? I would personally have questions about the repairs, what shop was it taken to, what's their reputation, which insurance companies were involved, are they cheap / fair / great in claims, how much did I fight insurance, what damage was missed by shop or claims adjuster, what will go wrong months or year down the road, blah blah. That's where I'm coming from. I fully trust the vehicle can get back to workable, great condition, but no way it keeps the same value.

 

Bingo...this is why I would demand a replacement. 2014 with approx 6K miles. It's their f*cking problem about how hard it is to find one and how much it cost. Take the tough line. Their client plowed into your car and you want to be made completely whole. If you have any accessories that you spent on your FJ and/or recent service, those need to be added to your claim. Dont back down. This is a significant repair not a fender bender. And they have decreased the market value of the vehicle even when repaired fully.

 

If you don't get a replacement fj, use this as an opportunity to upgrade.

I'm still putting my fj back together, but instead of having them put the factory front bumper back, I took the money to go aftermarket. It was near $1200.

Had I known they were replacing the headlights before they did it, I would've went aftermarket as well.

So, know what they are replacing, know what kind of money goes towards that, and go aftermarket if you want.

On yours this might be upgraded rock sliders, maybe the suspension was damaged and you use it as an opportunity to go higher end aftermarket.

Time for aftermarket wheels?

You get the point.

Oh and my insurance company was perfectly fine with it.

 

you can sometimes get payment for the value drop of a non wrecked vs wrecked vehicle in some states since to your point that there will be a difference.

 

I'd worry that the impact to the wheels bent an axle tube/hub/bearing on both sides. The side that got hit and the side that hit the curb. With a lateral hit to the rear end, I'd check the links, but their rubber is pretty flexible. Sway bar is probably okay too, but the panhard bar on the other hand is likely bent. The rear wheels are likely bent as well. They might look fine, but on a balancing machine, they'll probably wobble.
I'm also wondering about the tire. It looks like it's cut on the bottom, but I'm wondering if it was cut on the side and the truck moved enough to rotate the cut to the bottom. If you've got an automatic, it might be good to verify nothing got messed up in the transmission.

Work with the shop you choose and try to get aftermarket upgrades where possible. Rock rails, wheels, tires, fender flares?, etc as suggested above.

 

Agree 100%. I've made the mistake in the past of letting other people's faults go and it's come back to bite me BIG TIME. I once made the mistake of taking my 4Runner to a local shop and they forgot to tighten the lug nuts. I was driving 80 mpg up 95N to NJ and my wheel almost came off. My vehicle never handled the same after this debacle. Shop told me that they didn't realize their compressor was not working properly. I let them off the hook and when I went to sell my 4Runner, I took the financial hit. Try to maximize what you can get. It's not fair that you should suffer for someone else's ineptitude.

 

I think others are right, if I have a choice, I would much rather get another 14 that had not been in an accident. Even if they repaired your car perfectly, the accident is reported in Carfax and you will get a loss when you sell or trade your car. So always take the replacement option if it is available to you.

However, having been in three accidents in the last few years (all due to others running into me), the replacement option has never been offered. My Wrangler was totaled at less than replacement value, the other two cars were repaired. So I am not sure how common the replacement option is, and it also depends on whether the other driver's insurance is reputable. As I have had terrible experience with budget insurance, I have been to court twice to deal with their scum bag attorney (and won thankfully as I had a first rate attorney on my side, plus I have all the documentation and pictures to support the case).

So push for the best case, but don't always expect the best case outcome. Besides, attorney fees aren't exactly inexpensive these days, so you have to balance out how much your spend vs. how much you get in return. In the case they will not replace your vehicle, at least try to get some diminished value as a compensation. And only use the first rate body shop who are familiar with the FJ if you go down the repair route.

Unfortunately, there is rarely any upside to accidents. I hope you will be able to work something to your satisfaction with the insurance company.

 

This the saddest thing i have seen all day & week!!!!

 

I am going through that right now, My FJ has a totaled frame on a 2014 TTUE, I was not offered a new vehicle because the cost to repair was still under the cash value of what it is worth. I was just told today that my new frame might be here tomorrow. It is true that if you want to sell or trade your FJ in the future you will lose money because of the wreck. Look into something called "Diminished Value" after a wreck.

 

Ugh, sorry to hear that. Really glad you posted though - just did some reading on Diminished Value. Found this from What is Diminished Value?:

The insurance company for the at-fault driver legally owes you the amount you have lost due to the diminished value of your vehicle. To maximize your recovery you may need the legal expertise and resources only an attorney can provide. Many people are not aware of their opportunity to recover diminished value until it is too late (Oregon has a 6 year statute of limitations for diminished value), or they don't have the legal resources to effectively present a claim and so their claim is either denied or they collect thousands of dollars less than they're owed.

 

Thanks everyone for chiming in. Really good to hear your input, comments, suggestions. I feel more certain than ever that I want a replacement (or replacement value) but really unsure how to make that happen. And it's even murkier with two insurance companies involved.

Update from today's events:

- talked to collision center, he said initial indications are the frame is ok, though he stated they had not yet done a check with the laser (they will, need prep work first) or proper alignment check, so those might turn something up.

- talked with my local insurance agent (they're who I usually call if I have questions or need to make any changes), this is Allstate. I said I don't want to keep the FJ, fixing back to "new" status will still lose significant value over what I had. She told me it's not likely that they would replace the vehicle or buy it outright from me...

- talked to my insurance claims adjuster, he looked at the FJ today, came up with $5,500 in stuff but thinks they could find more as they dig in. I explained my concerns about frame damage, wheel damage, hub damage, possible drivetrain damage (it's manual, was in 1st gear), suspension damage. Told him I don't want to keep this vehicle. He said "we want to make you happy" and I said "the only thing that would make me happy is somebody hands me a check for FMV before the accident and I don't have to spend any more time talking to people, dealing with this, etc." He said that won't happen from Allstate. Basically, Allstate is going to proceed with restoring the vehicle to like-new condition. For the loss in value, he told me I need to take that up with the other driver's insurance (Farmer's). I don't have any idea how that plays out. What is Farmer's incentive / motivation to pay for the loss in value? How we even determine the difference? Seems like they could just say "we disagree, it's not a loss in value". I don't know. This avenue starts to feel like: I allow myself to get screwed, or find someone to sue. :-\

- have not talked to the other driver's insurance (Farmers) yet about anything. Totally unopened can of worms. Hoping to call Farmer's tomorrow and demand that they buy the FJ from me outright using FMV before the accident.

 

If this had been on ice, or even just flat pavement I wouldn't be to worried. The fact that it got pushed up on the curb speaks of problems. I also vote try to get a new fj, and have them upgrade anything that was done on yours!

Sad to see another one beat up...

Cheers,
Matt


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Ok another update: just called Farmer's 800 number, verified the driver's policy is active (there was some question about that...), and basically ranted at the guy that I don't want to keep the vehicle. He was just the generic agent who answered, and he stated a few times that if I wanted to file a claim with them, they would repair the vehicle to new condition. I repeated my statement, he repeated his, this happened a few more times. So... who do I talk to at Farmer's to demand a replacement vehicle? I'd also be happy with replacement cost and let me hunt for the replacement. I feel like I have nothing to bring to the table, no bargaining chips. I have the name+number of the local Farmer's agent, I guess I can call that guy but guessing it just goes the same way as the call I just had. Should I hire a lawyer to fight this for me...?? :-\

 

As I stated earlier, replacement is not a norm in insurance claims, so your response from both insurance company is not surprising. I doubt the claim center call agents, or local agents (which has little to do with claims) will ever give you the answer you want. Normally, if the car is not totaled, they will just repair it. Given your repair is around $5500 for a 14 FJ, your odd in getting it totaled or replaced is going to be pretty slim. Good news is both insurance companies are reputable, and not budget insurance, which is good.

The lack of airbag deployment does not mean you will not lose value. My car never had airbag deployment, but the accident record is in Carfax, and the dealers took $3000 - $3500 off a $4500 trade in value (depending on which dealer, I got trade-in from three) because of the accident record. For a very simple reason, people shopping for cars will mostly avoid any cars that were in an accident, as they will have no idea how well it was repaired, and whether there will be hidden problems down the road, as no new car or extended warranty will cover repairs caused by accidents. So dealer uses it as a tool to drive down the trade-in value, and hope to get a bigger profit when they flip it or sell it at an auction. For one, I will never touch any car with an accident record no matter how great the deal is and how great it looks. Thanks to Carfax, it brings a blessing and a curse, depending on which side of the coin you are on.

If you take it to court, be prepared that they will have an attorney representing the insurance company, so you will have to deal with him/her who are experts in proving there is no merit to your claim. Depending on how much litigation knowledge/experience you have, hiring an attorney may be your next option. As I said before, it is a costly option, and you need to balance how much you spend vs. how much you will get back in return.

I had my cars vandalized, ran into, broken into, dinged while parking on the street or parking lots, unfortunately that is almost unavoidable as people just don't have respect for others properties. A private garage or a private driveway is truly worth its weight in gold.

 

Work your way up the chain at Farmers, talk with the agent, and have him refer you to someone with decision making authority.

What is pathetic is your Allstate representative. Your insurance should go to bat for you in negotiating with the other insurance company. Farmer's client is 100% at fault and Allstate should not be treating this as their claim and covered under your Allstate policy limitations. You want to be made whole by Farmer's. When you talk with decision making management at Farmers ask them how they would view it if it was their own personal vehicle. They know damn well that an accident reduces market value even it repaired perfectly. This is not your insurance company (Allstate) where you have to allow them to fix it as described by the terms or your insurance. Farmer's is obligated to make you whole. You have proposed one way of doing that (low mileage vehicle replacement). Another way is to get it repaired and they pay you a cash settlement on top to make up for the lost market value.

Just don't take no for an answer and push it all the way up the line at Farmer's Insurance.

I work for a big company, when people send complaints to our executive officers, they get logged, get worked by their staff assistants, they get attention and they get worked/resolved quickly. I guarantee it works the same way at any big company. You need to move up well past the low level call center employee. Before you even bother speaking with people ask if they have decision making authority. If not, ask them to refer you upward to someone who can and don't waste time repeating your story until you get someone who claims to have decision making authority.

 

When we own a vehicle we have to assume some responsibility and risk. Same way with a house.

No normal car or house insurance is ever going to cover all your liabilities. The cost would be prohibitive. You can see this because there are always limits to how much they will pay on injuries or even deaths. Same with damage to your FJ. Laws are in place dictating this

If you want to that kind of insurance call Lloyds of London.

All those telling you to ask for a new FJ must not have dealt with insurance companies much.

Yes, you can fight it and it is your legal right but, legal fees are like having the Lloyds of London insurance.

Sorry about your great FJ getting hit. Not your fault but one of those risks you assume when you bought it.

 

So, current estimated repairs are $5,500 but that's basically the obvious, easy things - door panel, both rear wheels, one tire, a few other cosmetic things, then labor. They haven't checked anything with suspension, axle, hubs, or frame. If it stays at $5k in repairs, I'll be really surprised.

Totally agree on the street parking thing. ~10 years ago, we had a similar thing - drunk idiot crashed into our car (and 3 others) while it was parked on the street. But I don't know, once you put drunk / drugged-out drivers in the mix, anything can happen. A friend of mine had $50k in damages to her HOUSE when a drunk idiot crashed halfway into her living room... :-\

 

Mine went from like 12k to 20k after they started taking everything apart. Take it to a good shop and it will be ok...I am also dealing with Farmers, they are waiting till it is fixed before they will assess diminished value which is listed as property damage claim. will have been 6 weeks tomorrow...still don't have my fj back but soon.

 

Wow. 6 weeks is a long time.. sorry to hear that. I'm 1 week in so far, and their current estimate says 2 more weeks. I don't think they've hit any of the hard / real stuff yet with my FJ yet, guessing the 3 weeks gets pushed out...

 

Do you have a choice where you're getting it repaired at? Years ago when my truck got hit while parked I took it to the local shop that was known for great work but their prices reflected that. Because of this the estimate was much higher than at the other shops who looked at it. The other drivers insurance didn't question the estimate I submitted and cut me a check for the higher amount. I don't remember who the other driver had, but I had State Farm at the time and dealt with everything through them.

 

I picked the shop. So, initially, it was hit+run, so I got my insurance doing a claim on it. Later we found the other driver (and his insurance) but my insurance said they'll basically make his insurance pay for everything, including my deductible.

 

Funniest thing the most expensive part I have seen is the roof liner.

Roof Headliner $ 1,759.88
L Air Bag Side Curtain Module $ 1,456.21
Rear Susp Axle Housing $ 1,136.94
L Quarter Outer Panel $ 946.65
L Side Step $ 690.15 I told them hell no I'll take the cash instead.