...don't tell me is the same...

OK, I won't, but...

For all intents and purposes in real world-everyday situations and driving, there probably isn't much difference between the two.

A.W.D.

 

x2...for all practical purposes doubt anyone can tell the extra HP or increased mileage once the first mods go on....ie, tires or skids.

that being said...I give the 2007-2009 engine the edge as the oil filter is in a very accessible position and does not require removal of skid plate to change like the new filter media version.

 

I was also going to mention the oil filter situation. And milage is going to go down when mod's pile up anywho.

With the oil filter in an accessible position and more torque (not much however), I'd choose the 07-09 engine if I had to choose.

But they're practically the same

 

If you 4 wheel... the '07-'09 by a very small margin.

DEWFPO

 

Despite the annoying location of the oil filter, I give it to the 2010. I agree that once you do any modification, you won't notice anything. In stock form, the changes are noticeable. Just go to the dealer and test drive an '09 and then jump in a '10. Test drive the two and come to your own conclusions.

 

For those of you that want to Supercharge the TRD will not work with the 2010.
I do believe, with extra mods and weight, the 2010 will loose its advantage in mileage and power, since it looses torque. Since I had a Tundra with the stupid cartridge filter set up, I really think I like the 07-09. If the cartridge was relocated, then it would be ok.

 

Hey does anyone have dyno charts for both engines?

I realize the peak torque on the 07-09 engines is slightly higher, but the 2010 engine might have a better curve or the torque could come on a little lower. I'm interested to know what difference the addition of VVTi to the exhaust cams makes on the powerband.

I'd take the extra 1MPG of the new engine. If you put on AT tires, that puts you even with the older engine.

Another concern I have is if the new valvetrain will wear better considering it's a roller setup, whereas the 07-09 engine uses shimless buckets which have much higher friction. Can anyone validate the new engine is substantially quieter?

In another thread we talked about the ability to add an aftermarket intake. It seems like the throttle body is in the same place, but you would probably have to mess around with the length of the PCV/vacuum lines if you installed an existing 07-09 intake kit to the 2010 engine.

 

Another concern I have is if the new valvetrain will wear better considering it's a roller setup, whereas the 07-09 engine uses shimless buckets which have much higher friction. Can anyone validate the new engine is substantially quieter?

Roller rockers have always been the hot setup with less friction=less wear. I can't validate anything but I'd bet you won't hear that ticking noise as you do with the old setup.

 

It won't be too long before companies start to come out with aftermarket parts for the new changes. If the FJ production is continued, superchargers and all that jazz will come with time. If the FJ is discontinued, you can always drop an '07 engine in there.

 

This sucks!! I was happier when all the engines where the same!!!!:flame: Now 2010's and 2007-2009's Fj Owners are going to be rivals this is going to separate the family!!! Think! think! about the children:lol:

 

:rocker::rofl::cheers:

 

I had an 07 FJ and loved the low end torque... If you look at the specs the FJ reaches peak torque at a lower rpm than the Gen 4 4runner.

This new 4.0L has more power through the band but does not have that low end torque feeling... I drove a 4runner 2010 today and that low end torque feeling was missing. But I did notice better distribution of the power band since the 07-09 had a "off spot between 3500-4000 rpm.

If I had to choose the 07-09 version!

 

The 2010 takes 87 octane.
Minimum for 2009 and prior is 91.

To me that's the most valuable improvement.

For the rest check out the attached doc

 

That's actually not true, you can use any grade you want, i use 85 all the time in mine.

 

That's what Toyota says.
Proof in the attached doc.
The 2010 is also compatible with a 20% ethanol mix. The 2009 is not.

You can use whatever you want but the engine is running below optimum and you most likely void your waranty if you use grades below recommended.

With that said the 2010 engine is likely to outperform the 2009 engine with 85.

 

You can use whatever you want but the engine is running below optimum and you most likely void your waranty if you use grades below recommended.

The warranty will not be voided on pre-2010's if RUL is used instead of PUL. Toyota came out with a TSB stating this shortly after the '07's came on the market. It is posted in this forum in about 200 threads. No worries.

DEWFPO

 

it was Premium for top performance but it did not restrict you from using any grade you wanted....

 

Speaking of the new engine and the oil filter.... I just took my 2010 TT to my local shop for its first oil change (I bought Castrol 0W-30 at Autozone)....but they couldn't do the change because they don't have the right filter wrench. I guess the new filter requires a special wrench...which no one but the dealership has just yet. Otherwise, they didn't seem to mind the position, since they usually put it up on a rack anyway. Wouldn't want to be doing it myself, though....

 

Someone needs to come up with an oil filter mod for the 2010.

 

x2 a remote canister would be sweet. Do you have to remove the front skid plate to get to the filter on a 2010?

 

I believe so. There's an oval shaped plate underneath the drain plug (2 x 12mm bolts hold it on), but the canister appears to be forward of that plate, under the much larger skid plate. Whew! I'll try to get some pictures posted this week..someone PLEASE develop a remote canister kit!

 

In driving both the 07-09 engine is quieter and has better low end torque which is noticeable especially with larger tires, but the biggest difference for me is the oil filter position. It's almost a pleasure to change the oil in my 08, I can do it in minutes with out spilling a drop because of the filter placement and catch cup where as the 10 sounds like a major PITA.

 

What engine changes were made between the two?

 

Dual VVTi instead of single VVTi, 5W20 synthetic instead of 5W30 dino, roller rockers, oil filter type and location, external intake plumbing (pre-throttle body) and likely ECM tuning.

DEWFPO

 

so the new motors are running synthetic?

 

This discussion got me wondering about the internals, compression ratio, etc of the 1GR-FE engine. Found some interesting information on wikipedia on the subject. Note that the HP and torque numbers listed for the 2010 are based on using 87 octane fuel where as the 2007-2009 numbers are based on 91 octane fuel. Here is what I found out:

Toyota GR engine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Toyota GR engine
Manufacturer Toyota Motor Corporation
Production 2002–
Predecessor Toyota MZ engine
Toyota JZ engine (I6)
Toyota VZ engine
The Toyota GR engine family is an open-deck, V6 piston engine series. The GR series has a 60° die-cast aluminum block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. This engine series also features 4 valves per cylinder, forged steel connecting rods, one-piece cast camshafts, and a cast aluminum lower intake manifold. Some variants use multi-port fuel injection, some have D4 direct injection others have a combination of direct injection and multi-port fuel injection or D4-S.

The GR series replaces the previous MZ V6, JZ I6 and in the case of light trucks the VZ V6.

Note: Power ratings have changed due to SAE measurement changes for 2006 model year vehicles. Toyota rates engines on 87 octane, Lexus rates engines on 91 octane

Contents [hide]
1 1GR-FE
2 2GR
2.1 2GR-FE
2.2 2GR-FZE
2.3 2GR-FSE
2.4 2GR-FXE
3 3GR
3.1 3GR-FE
3.2 3GR-FSE
4 4GR-FSE
5 5GR-FE
6 See also
7 References


[edit] 1GR-FE

1GR-FE 4.0 L V6 from a 2007 Toyota FJ CruiserThe 1GR-FE is the 4.0 L version. Bore is 94 mm and stroke is 95 mm. Output is 236 hp (176 kW) at 5200 rpm with 266 lb·ft (361 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm on 87 octane, and 239 hp (178 kW) at 5200 rpm with 278 lb·ft (377 N·m) at 3700 rpm on 91 octane. This engine features Toyota's VVT-i, variable valve timing system on the intake cam and a compression ratio of 10.0:1. An updated version of this engine features Dual VVT-i, increasing output to 258 hp (192 kW) and 270 lb·ft (366 N·m) on 87 octane and 270 hp (201 kW) and 278 lb·ft (377 N·m) on 91 octane. Inside, the 1GR uses a taper-squish combustion chamber design with matching pistons to improve anti-knocking and engine performance, while also improving intake and fuel efficiency. Toyota adopted a siamese-type intake port, which reduces the surface area of the port walls and prevents fuel from adhering to such walls. This engine has special cast-iron cylinder liners cast into the block, which are a spiny type to improve adhesion between the liner and cylinder block. With these special thin liners it is impossible to bore the block. In the event of cylinder wall damage (scoring, deep protrusions, etc), the entire cylinder block must be replaced. For increased block rigidity, the 1GR also receives a high temperature plastic insulator/protector, which fills the empty space between the outer portion of the cylinders and block material common to open deck engines. For increased cooling efficiency, the 1GR employs water passages between the bores of the engine. There are two such passages for each bank for a total of four. This reduces cylinder hot-spotting and keeps combustion chamber temperatures more uniform.

A bolt-on TRD supercharger kit is available on Tacoma, and FJ Cruiser

Applications:

2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner / Hilux Surf (GRN210/215)
2007 Toyota Land Cruiser 200 (GRJ200)
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser (Prado) (GRJ120/121/125)
2005 Toyota Tacoma (GRN225/245/250/265/270)
2005 Toyota Hilux (GGN10/20)
2005 Toyota Tundra (GSK30)
2007 Toyota Tundra (GSK50/51)
2005 Toyota Fortuner (GGN50/60)
2006-2009 Toyota FJ Cruiser (GSJ10/15)
Added Dual VVT-i.

Applications:

2010 Toyota 4runner (270 hp)
2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser

 

From a pure usability point of view I find my self in 3rd gear more often than I did when I drove my 2006 Taco. This could be due to a combination of gearing and higher sweet point of the engine, nevertheless, it's what I noticed. Doesn't bother me -- just something I have to get used to.

And the engine/exhaust sound is sweet at 3000 rpm -- nice and deep growl -- reminds me of my E36 M3 with Dinan exhaust.

 

Man after reading the attached. There are major and many changes/improvements made by toyota from the 2009 model to the 2010 model. Read it and you will know the facts. axles, diff's, frame, engine, steering. All improved and beefed up.

 

Great information, Thanks

 

Possibly purchase an aftermarket Motec,AEM,etc. engine management system and take it to a very good shop that knows how to tune it properly. They can dial it in for maxiumum HP and fuel mileage. Probably a lot better than what it came from the factory with.

 

Octane level doesn't designate power. It is to prevent knock and detenation.

 

Thats interesting since all vehicles that are specified by the manufacturer for hp at 87 octane will always have more hp at higher octane since the fuel burns more efficiently. Otherwise you wouldnt need 104 and up for race fuel.

Knock does play into it but there is plenty of documentation readily available to disprove your statement.

Both engines are more or less the same. The oil filter thing is a pain in the ass and since Ive already got 35,500 mile on my 2010 I would say my experience changing the oil (every 4000-5000 miles) is pretty good. As far as the skids go, spoke to Bud at Budbuit and they are trying to make a trap door for the filter so the entire skid doesnt need to be removed. Other than that, pick the FJ you like- new/ used and it comes with a motor that will get the job done.

:cheers:

 

I like turtles

 

The 2010 has a less restrictive air intake lol that is all